Brexit again...

[Howjy04]

So why in the name of god did we vote for it? Why did the Remain and Leave campaigns spend millions telling us they did know? Why did we take such a ludicrous leap in the dark if no one knew what the outcome would be?

 

Why didn’t we vote to stay if it’s so good?I did but have since changed my mind.J.M Keynes.

[Howjy04]

Thevalefan,I thought you were leaving this sceptered isle?Still cleaning bogs?

[SourceOfTheTrent]

Immigration was a massive driver behind the Leave vote so it's interesting to see the latest figures from the ONS;

 

Net migration to the UK from EU countries = 88,000

 

Net migration to the UK from non-EU countries = 235,000

 

Returning to EU countries = 138,000

 

Returning to non-EU countries = 81,000

 

As we can see and as predicted by Remainers the immigration trend is for an increase in the proportion of non-EU migrants who don't have the right of free movement and therefore stay here. Is this the 'take back control of our borders' the Leavers voted for? Various UK governments have purposely failed to control immigration and leaving the EU isn't changing that it's just increasing the pace of change of British society and culture. Hardly taking back control!

[Howjy04]

Immigration was a massive driver behind the Leave vote so it's interesting to see the latest figures from the ONS;

 

Net migration to the UK from EU countries = 88,000

 

Net migration to the UK from non-EU countries = 235,000

 

Returning to EU countries = 138,000

 

Returning to non-EU countries = 81,000

 

As we can see and as predicted by Remainers the immigration trend is for an increase in the proportion of non-EU migrants who don't have the right of free movement and therefore stay here. Is this the 'take back control of our borders' the Leavers voted for? Various UK governments have purposely failed to control immigration and leaving the EU isn't changing that it's just increasing the pace of change of British society and culture. Hardly taking back control!

So you would be happy to allow unlimited migration into the U.K. from EU and Non EU countries and then you can complain a bit more about lack of housing.Your company needs to get its ar5e in gear,don’t you think?

[SourceOfTheTrent]

Highest employment for 40 years.Give me examples of the great exodus.Virtually accusing me of racism will get your ar5e kicked sonny.But hey let’s all defy a vote by the UK electorate and moan our bags out because the weak amongst us,such as yourself,are clueless to do anything else.

 

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/in-numbers-uk-jobs-lost-to-brexit-so-far-this-year/22/06/

 

https://www.ft.com/content/bb7104ce-b5d3-11e8-bbc3-ccd7de085ffe

 

Some examples of the great exodus as you call it and this is before we've even left or have any clue whatsoever what post-Brexit economic terms we'll be on.

 

Highest employment for 40 years is very misleading. The quality of employment is increasingly poor with low paid, low skilled service jobs, zero hours contracts, increased reliance on taxpayer subsidised employment. The largest recipient groups of welfare benefits are pensioners and claimants in work, ie, those who work but don't earn enough to live on it!

 

Everything tells us Brexit is a looming disaster, nothing tells us it's likely to be a success. It's madness, utter madness! Patriotism, of whatever kind, is purely emotional but it largely drove the Brexit vote and will not put food on the table.

[Thevalefan]

Highest employment for 40 years.Give me examples of the great exodus.Virtually accusing me of racism will get your ar5e kicked sonny.But hey let’s all defy a vote by the UK electorate and moan our bags out because the weak amongst us,such as yourself,are clueless to do anything else.

 

Hahaha is that literally all you can offer as a reply?? That's abysmal Howjy even by your own standards on here.

If unemployment is so low why are things so vastly bad for people? Surely that means the immigrants are not a problem taking jobs off British people then - something thrown around by the Leave campaign? We've been over employment statistics so if you believe them on face value (as you appear to do most pro Brexit things then more fool you).

 

Why is wage growth so slow, If so many are employed?

 

There are loads of examples of companies relocating and jobs leaving. Look it up, if you know how, loads has been posted throughout this thread - in fact, someone post a link to 126 jobs lost locally due to Brexit about 2 pages ago so keep up! Unilever, Panasonic, London banks..... JLR on 3 day weeks now so let's see how many keep a full contract come the new year.

 

Facts are, you do stand shoulder to shoulder with racists on this topic and you don't even question why that is. Don't get giving it large now sonny 😂 , I said 'i doubt' and never virtually accused you of anything. Your calling me weak but look how much of a sensitive little snowflake you are when you can't put forward any good points to an argument!! Just like all the other Brexiteers on here!

 

So I'm weak for not accepting all those things I've listed above as cons because of an advisory referendum vote that said "in or out"?? 😂 Your on the verge of quoting Churchill or something soon arnt you 😂 I'd say someone weak is someone who can't think for themselves and follows decisions even if they are wrong....

 

Yeah I will be off. Don't worry about that, I and many others. Thing is us bog cleaners are highly sought after, so it makes sense to stay for a while.

 

You still licking windows clean? 😂

[SourceOfTheTrent]

So you would be happy to allow unlimited migration into the U.K. from EU and Non EU countries and then you can complain a bit more about lack of housing.Your company needs to get its ar5e in gear,don’t you think?

 

How did you derive that conclusion from my post? Ahh, I know, that's what you WANTED to derive from it.

 

I'm giving some FACTS, you know, those things logical people use in working things out correctly. The fact here is the leave vote was driven largely by the issue of immigration and 'taking back control'. What I'm pointing out is that's bunkum and always has been, the UK hasn't controlled immigration for 70 years plus and is highly unlikely to anytime soon. Also, let's be honest, the anti-immigration lobby was heavily weighted against Islamic immigration, eg, the Turkey scaremongering lies advert, and by leaving the EU the irony will be less people from countries with very similar cultures and values like ours and more people from non-European countries with different cultures and value sets.

 

EU free movement means just that, free movement within the EU, coming and going just like in the USA. Non-EU immigration is very different, come here and here to stay and if the economy shrinks they don't move for work as they can't, they just add to the welfare burden. Is that what Farage, Gove, Fox, Johnson, Raab, Rees-Mogg & co. were explaining to people? No, they just want out and think post-EU membership they'll forge a free market economy 19th century style with little or no welfare state and minimal employment rights.

 

As for your comments on housing surely you can see we need a return to public sector investment in the housing stock? Or should we allow the arrival of Brazilian style favelas, or continue to see a rise of homeless people sleeping rough? Big builders in the private sector won't solve that one, never mind small operators like me and trying to poke fun at what I do for a living also won't improve things.

 

Try thinking things through based on facts rather than emotions.

[Howjy04]

Hahaha is that literally all you can offer as a reply?? That's abysmal Howjy even by your own standards on here.

If unemployment is so low why are things so vastly bad for people? Surely that means the immigrants are not a problem taking jobs off British people then - something thrown around by the Leave campaign? We've been over employment statistics so if you believe them on face value (as you appear to do most pro Brexit things then more fool you).

 

Why is wage growth so slow, If so many are employed?

 

There are loads of examples of companies relocating and jobs leaving. Look it up, if you know how, loads has been posted throughout this thread - in fact, someone post a link to 126 jobs lost locally due to Brexit about 2 pages ago so keep up! Unilever, Panasonic, London banks..... JLR on 3 day weeks now so let's see how many keep a full contract come the new year.

 

Facts are, you do stand shoulder to shoulder with racists on this topic and you don't even question why that is. Don't get giving it large now sonny , I said 'i doubt' and never virtually accused you of anything. Your calling me weak but look how much of a sensitive little snowflake you are when you can't put forward any good points to an argument!! Just like all the other Brexiteers on here!

 

So I'm weak for not accepting all those things I've listed above as cons because of an advisory referendum vote that said "in or out"?? Your on the verge of quoting Churchill or something soon arnt you I'd say someone weak is someone who can't think for themselves and follows decisions even if they are wrong....

 

Yeah I will be off. Don't worry about that, I and many others. Thing is us bog cleaners are highly sought after, so it makes sense to stay for a while.

 

You still licking windows clean?

Check out JCB’s latest orders.You and SOTT only look how bad things Might be.Get yourself over to Germany ,they let any *****r in there.Hurry up though,you’ve only got 6 months,low skilled workers may struggle after that.BT

W the racist party of the UK is Labour.I’m Toryscum,

[Howjy04]

How did you derive that conclusion from my post? Ahh, I know, that's what you WANTED to derive from it.

 

I'm giving some FACTS, you know, those things logical people use in working things out correctly. The fact here is the leave vote was driven largely by the issue of immigration and 'taking back control'. What I'm pointing out is that's bunkum and always has been, the UK hasn't controlled immigration for 70 years plus and is highly unlikely to anytime soon. Also, let's be honest, the anti-immigration lobby was heavily weighted against Islamic immigration, eg, the Turkey scaremongering lies advert, and by leaving the EU the irony will be less people from countries with very similar cultures and values like ours and more people from non-European countries with different cultures and value sets.

 

EU free movement means just that, free movement within the EU, coming and going just like in the USA. Non-EU immigration is very different, come here and here to stay and if the economy shrinks they don't move for work as they can't, they just add to the welfare burden. Is that what Farage, Gove, Fox, Johnson, Raab, Rees-Mogg & co. were explaining to people? No, they just want out and think post-EU membership they'll forge a free market economy 19th century style with little or no welfare state and minimal employment rights.

 

As for your comments on housing surely you can see we need a return to public sector investment in the housing stock? Or should we allow the arrival of Brazilian style favelas, or continue to see a rise of homeless people sleeping rough? Big builders in the private sector won't solve that one, never mind small operators like me and trying to poke fun at what I do for a living also won't improve things.

 

Try thinking things through based on facts rather than emotions.

You are against Brexit,I get it,but don’t think you are any smarter than anybody who doesn’t agree with you.You want to stay in the EU,you know the answer to that.

[SourceOfTheTrent]

Yes, I want to stay in the EU, not for any other reason than I think we are much better off in than not and for me when I look at the facts, not conjecture, I conclude our best interests as a nation are best served as an EU country. The conjecture and predictions just reinforce my thinking because those supporting a successful Brexit are nowhere near as convincing or likely as those saying to remain would be best.

If I saw some reasoned argument that Brexit is a good thing I'd change my mind and I honestly mean that, I've changed my opinion on many things in the past it's how progress is made.

[SourceOfTheTrent]

BTW contrary to what you may think I don't consider myself smarter than those with a different opinion to myself. However, I cannot accept statements and opinions that are inaccurate, deliberately false or misleading or not based in any evidence whatsoever. Those things I determine as demonstrating either dishonestly or a lack of intelligence.

[Howjy04]

BTW contrary to what you may think I don't consider myself smarter than those with a different opinion to myself. However, I cannot accept statements and opinions that are inaccurate, deliberately false or misleading or not based in any evidence whatsoever. Those things I determine as demonstrating either dishonestly or a lack of intelligence.

 

Opinions cannot be inaccurate.Try thinking positive SOTT,suicide is never the answer.

You need to move on .You could perhaps give thevalefan a job so you can compare dissertations over a brew,he has just made you.(NB,Ive given him a promotion)and just dream about what it used to be like.

[Thevalefan]

Check out JCB’s latest orders.You and SOTT only look how bad things Might be.Get yourself over to Germany ,they let any *****r in there.Hurry up though,you’ve only got 6 months,low skilled workers may struggle after that.BT

W the racist party of the UK is Labour.I’m Toryscum,

 

Go and pick your toys up and put them back in your pram you big girls blouse 😂

[Thevalefan]

Opinions cannot be inaccurate.Try thinking positive SOTT,suicide is never the answer.

You need to move on .You could perhaps give thevalefan a job so you can compare dissertations over a brew,he has just made you.(NB,Ive given him a promotion)and just dream about what it used to be like.

 

Howjy what did you do for a living?

[Thevalefan]

Apart from licking windows clean? 😂