Paris Unite

[Andyregs]

We cannot just say Muslims, there is more than one sect, often fighting each other. Just like Christians, there are many sects, even Christians have fought each other recently. There will always be fanatics in any religion, either their religions control them or the state does. Until there is world wide religious

tolerance there will always be problems. My main question is who is funding ISIS?

 

Don't they control oil fields now. I said this in a different thread a while ago, but it's the black market oil trading that needs stopping, though easier said than done. I'm sure I read a lot of it went out of the Middle East via Turkey, but I could be wrong.

[Vital Spark]

The first, and one of the most important steps to making things better would be the ending of single-religion schools of any sort, and teaching children about all religions, not that the one their parents follow is right to the exclusion of all others. This is mainly the teaching in Christian schools, and children of Christian parents mostly make up their own minds, but a far lesser number of children of Muslim parents do. This also applies to other extreme religions like Orthodox Jews, and a few far-right Christian sects are guilty of it.

Stop children growing up brainwashed and perhaps it will help to stop these atrocities.

 

Sadly, this doesn't work - I know first hand. Muslims can opt in and out of certain religious activities, yet studying Islam for a term as part RE is compulsory for every pupil. What message does that send to our youth?

[Andyregs]

Sadly, this doesn't work - I know first hand. Muslims can opt in and out of certain religious activities, yet studying Islam for a term as part RE is compulsory for every pupil. What message does that send to our youth?

 

In RE they study mainly Christianity, but also have to study another religion, as its RE not CE. That religion is chosen within each local area. Not sure what message that send apart from that there is more than one religion in the world.

[Vital Spark]

In RE they study mainly Christianity, but also have to study another religion, as its RE not CE. That religion is chosen within each local area. Not sure what message that send apart from that there is more than one religion in the world.

 

No, the message it sends, is the Muslims get treated differently than the non-muslims. I agree that all kids should learn all aspects of culture and religion and the fascinating knowledge it can bring, but all kids means all kids. It seems like its their way or no way with Islam and they have no intention of wanting to integrate or appreciate the society and values that makes this country so great.

[For Us All]

Just watching he news live in Paris, and hundred of people started running past terrified. False alarm I think, but shows how in edge they must be.

Edit: the police are there now. Scary stuff.

 

It was some half-wit playing with firecrackers.They want a rocket up their ****.

[Andyregs]

No, the message it sends, is the Muslims get treated differently than the non-muslims. I agree that all kids should learn all aspects of culture and religion and the fascinating knowledge it can bring, but all kids means all kids. It seems like its their way or no way with Islam and they have no intention of wanting to integrate or appreciate the society and values that makes this country so great.

 

No you are completely wrong. The opt out option for religious education and sex ed are for all students. It doesn't state differences by religion or ethnicity. It's there in black and white. And I've covered the learning of a second religion above. It doesn't show Muslims get treated differently at all.

[Bea Smith]

We cannot just say Muslims, there is more than one sect, often fighting each other. Just like Christians, there are many sects, even Christians have fought each other recently. There will always be fanatics in any religion, either their religions control them or the state does. Until there is world wide religious

tolerance there will always be problems. My main question is who is funding ISIS?

 

ISIS is funded mainly by Saudi Arabia, who support them as a Sunni Muslim extremist arm, plus a number of other Gulf states like Qatar. The huge irony is that Saudi Arabia is propped up by the western powers, especially the US and the UK. Saudi Arabia is also almost entirely responsible from changing the situation in Syria from a reasonably peaceful protest against the government (Assad) to an armed insurrection by supplying arms and training and funds on a huge scale to opposition groups and encouraging violent overthrow of the government.

 

Not surprisingly, this was met with return force by the Assad government, with the west piling in to support the rebellion on the grounds that it would cause trouble for the Russians, who Assad gets support from in return for what was a fairly minimal military presence before the war.

 

The whole thing backfired and blew up on the anti-Assad alliance, but has not caused Saudi Arabia any problems, just the whole of Europe with a refugee disaster, and millions of Syrians who had a reasonable life under Assad - certainly a safe, warm, and well fed life even if not a totally democratic one.

 

ISIS is the latest creation of the Frankenstein politics of the USA, which spawned the Taliban in Afghanistan and armed it to fight the Russians again, the Al Queda from its intervention in Iraq, and now ISIS from interference and troublemaking in Syria. The UK and France have blood on their hands from Syria too.

 

Add to that the way NATO destroyed Libya as a functional state and left a power vacuum for ISIS, people traffikers and every other kind of middle-eastern Mafia going to exploit, and the picture is very grim indeed.

[Andyregs]

It was some half-wit playing with firecrackers.They want a rocket up their ****.

 

They are lucky they didn't get shot by the police.

[For Us All]

Religious Instruction needs to be taken out of schools altogether,if anyone is interested in learning more they can always visit their local church or mosque.

[Vital Spark]

No you are completely wrong. The opt out option for religious education and sex ed are for all students. It doesn't state differences by religion or ethnicity. It's there in black and white. And I've covered the learning of a second religion above. It doesn't show Muslims get treated differently at all.

 

Sorry, don't agree and absolutely nothing you can say will convince me otherwise.And no, I'm not wrong, I've simply witnesses things that are different than your roses outlook.

[Vital Spark]

ISIS is funded mainly by Saudi Arabia, who support them as a Sunni Muslim extremist arm, plus a number of other Gulf states like Qatar. The huge irony is that Saudi Arabia is propped up by the western powers, especially the US and the UK. Saudi Arabia is also almost entirely responsible from changing the situation in Syria from a reasonably peaceful protest against the government (Assad) to an armed insurrection by supplying arms and training and funds on a huge scale to opposition groups and encouraging violent overthrow of the government.

 

Not surprisingly, this was met with return force by the Assad government, with the west piling in to support the rebellion on the grounds that it would cause trouble for the Russians, who Assad gets support from in return for what was a fairly minimal military presence before the war.

 

The whole thing backfired and blew up on the anti-Assad alliance, but has not caused Saudi Arabia any problems, just the whole of Europe with a refugee disaster, and millions of Syrians who had a reasonable life under Assad - certainly a safe, warm, and well fed life even if not a totally democratic one.

 

ISIS is the latest creation of the Frankenstein politics of the USA, which spawned the Taliban in Afghanistan and armed it to fight the Russians again, the Al Queda from its intervention in Iraq, and now ISIS from interference and troublemaking in Syria. The UK and France have blood on their hands from Syria too.

 

Add to that the way NATO destroyed Libya as a functional state and left a power vacuum for ISIS, people traffikers and every other kind of middle-eastern Mafia going to exploit, and the picture is very grim indeed.

 

Are we therefore suggesting that the world would be a safer place if Saddam Hussein and Col Gaddafi were still in power?

[Bea Smith]

Sadly, this doesn't work - I know first hand. Muslims can opt in and out of certain religious activities, yet studying Islam for a term as part RE is compulsory for every pupil. What message does that send to our youth?

 

I don't think it would be impossible or even very difficult to make it work, just the same schools for all pupils, with RE lessons for all pupils and no opting out. The RE lessons would teach all religions, with time on each apportioned by the number of those following each religion in the country. Those who don't like it could then decide whether they wished to have their children educated in another country.

[Vital Spark]

I don't think it would be impossible or even very difficult to make it work, just the same schools for all pupils, with RE lessons for all pupils and no opting out. The RE lessons would teach all religions, with time on each apportioned by the number of those following each religion in the country. Those who don't like it could then decide whether they wished to have their children educated in another country.

 

Totally agree with your concept, but ridiculous political-correctness and do-gooders wouldn't allow schools and authorities to make statements such as "like it or lump it" to certain sections of our communities.

[Andyregs]

Totally agree with your concept, but ridiculous political-correctness and do-gooders wouldn't allow schools and authorities to make statements such as "like it or lump it" to certain sections of our communities.

 

Why is it that do gooders get blamed for literally everything! It's a meaningless statement.

I'm probably what you'd label as a do gooder. The person you are agreeing with is also one probably, yet I think religion should be kept out of schools. You'll find the more conservative element are very keen on RE in schools.

[Bea Smith]

Are we therefore suggesting that the world would be a safer place if Saddam Hussein and Col Gaddafi were still in power?

 

Controversially, yes. Certainly Assad too.

Before you cry that these were horrible men and killers, it is all a question of degree - you have to ask if the average Libyan, Iraqi or Syrian is better off in the current circumstances than they were before.

 

Examining each country in turn - Syria is easy, they certainly were. Syria under Assad was undemocratic and not free, but it was well fed, safe and relatively prosporous, with Christian, Sunni Muslims, Shia Muslims, Alawites and Kurds all co-exisiting without fighting each other. People went there as tourists to see the sites now being destroyed by ISIS and there was stability and mostly peace.

By stirring up and encouraging insurrection and armed rebellion, the West and the Saudis and gulf states have unleashed untold suffering for millions and created ISIS and a refugee catastrophe that has sent waves of despair and uncertainty to places far outside Syria and even the Middle East.

Libya 20 or 30 years ago under Gaddafi was a rogue state, a sponsor of terrorism - BUT that had changed, and in return for sanctions being dropped Gadhaffi had supported the fight against Islamic extremism and been welcomed by Blair, Bush and even the UN as a peaceful leader, even given up weaponry. Again, in the years from about 2000-2010 the average Libyan had a relatively good and peaceful, well fed prosperous life albeit without much democratic freedom. Now they are at the mercy of armed tribal gangs thanks to NATO pulling the country apart. There is little doubt most Libyans would like things back as they were in the early 2000's.

 

Iraq is more difficult as Safddam Hussein was indeed a monster who unleashed terror on some groups in his country - but still a large number of Iraqis lived in peace and relative prosperity. The main problems were with the Kurds and the people in the south east, The West would have been better helping the Kurds establish their own state, but had no real interest in helping them, just wanted the oil in Iraq.

Helping the Iraqi Kurds would upset Turkey, who also have a large Kurdish area, with yet more Kurdish people living in Syria - and the US will not upset NATO ally Turkey and even helped them against the Kurds at the same time as helping the Kurds fight against firstly Saddam then ISIS.

Not clear cut, but given the bloodbath that Iraq has suffered since Busha nd Blair went to war based on lies, yes, Id say we should have left well alone.