not a great week in politics

[CambridgeDon]

And what effect has this had on UKIP support ? Very little, and I am not commenting on rights or wrongs, just observing from the sidelines. But they are not saying anything that a quite large number of people say every day. I've overheard the N word several times in public recently, and still the smug sit back and pretend there is no racist element in our public.

There is, though only some in UKIP are racist - if you blame everyone who votes UKIP you'll get a massive backlash that will blow away the smug who don't realise that the current rise in UKIP support is a cross-section of society in the form of former Tories, former Labour and yes, some from the party now never mentioned the BNP.

UKIP will splinter at some point, because it is a mix of left, business ex-Tories, ordinary decent working class people, and far right nut jobs, but some of what they say is not wrong just because it is UKIP saying it. The one thing that would keep them united and stop this splintering is treating them as if they were the BNP and over-reacting with massive political correctness that is generally unpopular with the public.

Cameron is to blame for a lot of this, he must rue the day when he called UKIP a bunch of fruitcakes and nutters or whatever, because if he believes that now he may be excluding about 1 in 4 people from voting for him. Yes, they do have their nutters but the 15 per cent of the electorate that they have added to their voting ranks this year will stay with them if they are told they are nutters too, if the other parties want to win them back they must be subtle, totally honest (!), hard working and innovative with ideas that will improve the country.

 

Bea, I thought your analysis of what would cause UKIP to splinter very interesting. What occurred to me was that most of the mainstream parties have members with wide ranging views (for example in Labour it was highlighted by their Clause 4 debate; in the Conservatives by their constant divisions over Europe; and in the LibDems by their Orange Book faction). One thought that occurred to me was that it won't be the divergence of views that is likely to cause them to split but (i) electoral failure; and (ii) personality clashes among their leadership. While they're on the up, I don't think these potential fracture points will emerge (you can get away with a lot while you're winning).

 

You're also right to say that constantly blaming potential UKIP voters for their legitimately held grievances and criticising them for what they see as the socially damaging policies of the mainstream parties is only going to cause them to dig their heels in. The failure of mainstream parties seriously to address the legitimate concerns of so many ordinary people is only going to fuel their sense of grievance.

[Yukon]

Bea, I thought your analysis of what would cause UKIP to splinter very interesting. What occurred to me was that most of the mainstream parties have members with wide ranging views (for example in Labour it was highlighted by their Clause 4 debate; in the Conservatives by their constant divisions over Europe; and in the LibDems by their Orange Book faction). One thought that occurred to me was that it won't be the divergence of views that is likely to cause them to split but (i) electoral failure; and (ii) personality clashes among their leadership. While they're on the up, I don't think these potential fracture points will emerge (you can get away with a lot while you're winning).

 

You're also right to say that constantly blaming potential UKIP voters for their legitimately held grievances and criticising them for what they see as the socially damaging policies of the mainstream parties is only going to cause them to dig their heels in. The failure of mainstream parties seriously to address the legitimate concerns of so many ordinary people is only going to fuel their sense of grievance.

 

I still find all this "concerns of ordinary people" nonsense hilarious! I believe the word is "duped"

[carl]

I still find all this "concerns of ordinary people" nonsense hilarious! I believe the word is "duped"

 

No you would have to be duped to vote for the Labour party who will lead us to more national debt or the Conservative party who will all but kill off the working class.

 

All this talk of scandals when you have a woman Labour MP laughing at an innocent working man through twitter and a tory calling Policeman 'plebs'. I think the mask has finally fallen off both of these deceitful lying elitists.

[carl]

Like the recent movement in Australia #illridewithyou where the local populace of Sydney stood alongside Muslims to show the world that they don't judge the majority on the actions of a minority? How will this further PrejUKIP's cause?

 

UKIP have not got an agenda against Muslims. They do, though, stand up for our own cultures and values, unlike Labour who introduced Islamic schools and Conservatives whose PM publicly states that he wants more 'asian' MP's. I would say to give Muslims a proper majority control in a democratic government would be very dangerous indeed.

 

I'm sure a minority on this site would prefer to build a few more Mosques instead of cheap affordable Social housing for our own people who live in down right poverty, i'm sure that is the the way forward. People seem to think that Islam is a peaceful religion when it is anything but. There is a majority of good muslims, but unfortunately there are a lot of Muslims who take the Koran literally. And the sad thing is until the National Council of Muslims agree to a revised Koran in the UK then we will remain in danger. Any person who thinks we are now safe on our streets are very naive indeed.

[Bea Smith]

Bea, I thought your analysis of what would cause UKIP to splinter very interesting. What occurred to me was that most of the mainstream parties have members with wide ranging views (for example in Labour it was highlighted by their Clause 4 debate; in the Conservatives by their constant divisions over Europe; and in the LibDems by their Orange Book faction). One thought that occurred to me was that it won't be the divergence of views that is likely to cause them to split but (i) electoral failure; and (ii) personality clashes among their leadership. While they're on the up, I don't think these potential fracture points will emerge (you can get away with a lot while you're winning).

 

You're also right to say that constantly blaming potential UKIP voters for their legitimately held grievances and criticising them for what they see as the socially damaging policies of the mainstream parties is only going to cause them to dig their heels in. The failure of mainstream parties seriously to address the legitimate concerns of so many ordinary people is only going to fuel their sense of grievance.

 

 

You summarise and analyse my points far more eloquently than I can manage to express them; I think we agree that it is both a fascinating and dangerous time in politics and for our society. The next election will be far different from any in the last 80 years or so.

It also occurred to me that the other factor in the rise (and possible fall) of UKIP is/will be the Murdoch media and their associates. It suits them at the moment to build UKIP up, and has done for 18 months or so. I detect the start of the backlash with recent stories and so-called scandals though.

The power of the press or media should never be underestimated at elections. Blair only became PM and the Labour party got back in power when the Sun endorsed them in the run-up to the 1997 election.

A huge amount will depend on what 'advice' the tabloids and other similar media outlets give people regarding UKIP as May approaches.

If they say that a vote for UKIP will let in the dark forces of Red Ed, as they will put it, and we will all face huge tax, interest rate and price rises and this message is hammered home in the Sun, on Sky and everywhere else then the Tories will be back in power.

I have no idea what sort of relationship UKIP have with the press mafia at the moment, but it will play a crucial role in whether they get 7 per cent or 27 per cent of the vote, or somewhere in between.

I wouldn't expect much more in-fighting before the election, maybe afterwards if UKIP fade and Farage gives way to more hard-liners, or there could be some real vitriol if strange and wonderful alliances for coalitions are put forward like Labour UKIP and the Scots Nationalists, or even Libs, Labour and Scots Nats but needing the N Ireland protestant MPs.

Finally, though it sounds paranoid, and like it or not, every country's political parties are under the watchful eye of the CIA and our US 'partners/allies' - what will they make of it if UKIP gain some power or hold the balance of power ?

Interesting times.

[Bea Smith]

I don't enjoy talking..I love talking

 

Better amuse one person than none at all;)

 

 

Ah, bless. My quick reply (post 28 - look at JAs original post which was quoted) gave him time to amend it from a very poor joke to an almost reasonable one.

 

 

Anyway, here is a nice song for you, the late great Rick Nelson and if you change the lyric slightly from 'everyone' to 'anyone' it suits your posts perfectly.:)

 

[geosname]

No you would have to be duped to vote for the Labour party who will lead us to more national debt or the Conservative party who will all but kill off the working class.

 

All this talk of scandals when you have a woman Labour MP laughing at an innocent working man through twitter and a tory calling Policeman 'plebs'. I think the mask has finally fallen off both of these deceitful lying elitists.

 

The really sad thing is that people know what the labour party are, they know who the conservatives are and they know why the lib dems do what they do.... the inexplicable part is they think ukip will be any different

[Robbie Earle's Perm]

Its the futility of it all, I think, you know they will tell you what you want to hear, you know they will do something different when elected, you know they are unreliable [shall we say] you know they are all the same under their different badges/colours/emblems/slogans and yet still they get voted into power.... even if 90% of the population didnt vote someone from the collective would get in... so we sit and mock them and accuse them and deride them and chuckle at the hopelessness and futility of it all... and we suffer..

If the banks have a problem the government rush in with public money

If the government have a problem the opposition rush in with public money

If the people have a problem there is a lot of coughing into hands, laughing up sleeves and people running the other way with public money

 

rant over.... where are the razor blades

 

I've got some if you need help! ;) (joke!!).

[Yukon]

The really sad thing is that people know what the labour party are, they know who the conservatives are and they know why the lib dems do what they do.... the inexplicable part is they think ukip will be any different

 

Hence duped.

 

"Because he likes a fag and a pint, let's all believe what Farage thinks! He understands the working classes, albeit dressed in tweed, on a full MEP 's wage (with full expenses allowance) and I'm sure they were taught about the sensibilities of the common man at Dulwich College...".

 

Hats off, it's worked on more people then I'd have guessed, then I'm not a politician.

 

 

 

 

Or a liar

[JOHNNYAITCH]

Ah, bless. My quick reply (post 28 - look at JAs original post which was quoted) gave him time to amend it from a very poor joke to an almost reasonable one.

 

Why the desire to give a quick reply'? What joke? There was no attempt at a joke. This is bordering on an obsession..you're in such a hurry to reply to me..do you sit there waiting for me to post?

 

Anyway, here is a nice song for you, the late great Rick Nelson and if you change the lyric slightly from 'everyone' to 'anyone' it suits your posts perfectly.:)

 

 

Can't access youtube cos I am working ;)

[JOHNNYAITCH]

UKIP have not got an agenda against Muslims. They do, though, stand up for our own cultures and values,

 

And what are these cultures and values?

 

Conservatives whose PM publicly states that he wants more 'asian' MP's.

 

And what would be wrong with that?

 

I would say to give Muslims a proper majority control in a democratic government would be very dangerous indeed.

 

If it happens through the democratic process then we all have to accept and live with that don't we?

 

I'm sure a minority on this site would prefer to build a few more Mosques instead of cheap affordable Social housing for our own people

 

Mosques are not built with governemnet (national nor local) money. 'our own people'????

 

who live in down right poverty, i'm sure that is the the way forward.

 

So there are no Muslims born in the Uk living in poverty?

 

People seem to think that Islam is a peaceful religion when it is anything but.

 

Not true..that is why the Muslims indulging in violence etc are called extremists..the clue is in the word extremist

 

There is a majority of good muslims, but unfortunately there are a lot of Muslims who take the Koran literally.

 

Can you give some examples?

 

And the sad thing is until the National Council of Muslims agree to a revised Koran in the UK then we will remain in danger.

 

Why on earth woulld they do that?

 

Any person who thinks we are now safe on our streets are very naive indeed.

 

Scaremongering..the chances of anything adverse happening to you today as a result of a Muslim doing something to you are tiny; you're probably more likely to be hit by a car

[JOHNNYAITCH]

Ah, bless. My quick reply (post 28 - look at JAs original post which was quoted) gave him time to amend it from a very poor joke to an almost reasonable one.

 

 

Anyway, here is a nice song for you, the late great Rick Nelson and if you change the lyric slightly from 'everyone' to 'anyone' it suits your posts perfectly.:)

 

 

Just noticed the timing of this post..OMG you came on here hours later, felt the need to look back at my edited post, felt the need to justify why you'd posted what you had posted (calling on everyone else to look at my original post as part of that justification) and then felt the need to post the above!!!! STALKER ALERT!!!!!

[geosname]

I've got some if you need help! ;) (joke!!).

 

I dont have a razor any more, slung it when I retired 15 years ago... just use the hedge trimmer now and again... I do have a few cut throats in storage... but I have to go back to the UK so the fuzz will have to stay for insulation

[Yukon]

I dont have a razor any more, slung it when I retired 15 years ago... just use the hedge trimmer now and again... I do have a few cut throats in storage... but I have to go back to the UK so the fuzz will have to stay for insulation

 

I'm all for face fuzz- clean shaven is cold and horrible!

[kevin_struggles]

Casual homophobia in this case!!!!!

 

Yes but some people will see racism everywhere they look, whether its actually there or not.

 

The breast feeding comments were pretty fair in my opinion. It wasnt Farage or UKIP who actually asked her to cover up and if someone is offended by seing breast feeding in public then their feelings must be taken into account and should carry as much weight as the opinion of someone who doesnt mind being exposed to it. There isnt a morally correct way to think, all views are valid in a free society or it isnt free.

 

The fact that people still cant see that explains the rise of UKIP wonderfully.

 

People are sick and tired of being told what they can and cannot think. UKIP votes are a direct result of the three main parties failing to listen to peoples views because they are too busy pandering to well organised pressure groups.

 

Do any of you honestly think a woman being asked to cover herself whilst breast feeding in Claridges is the most important news item of the week? It should ahve been two lines on page 54. Do any of you really think that a politicians opinion on breast feeding in public is as important as their views on the countries finances, membership of the EU, their thoughts on how to deal with terrorism or the economy?

 

This country is becoming a society of idiots run by shallow, dim witted politicians who are consistently failing to identify, and deal with, the really important issues.

 

Its time they were given a massive wake up call, which is where UKIP become useful.

 

But because I know the audience on here, my opinion on breast feeding in public is that I couldnt care less, its just not important to me.