NW9Valiant

As I'm moving back into the Stoke area I'm in a position to come to more games and a season ticket is on my agenda for the first time since I lived in Stoke over 12 years ago. The thing is, and I bet a lot of people renewing will feel the same way, is they won't want to be taken for mugs. We know the club will do a drive for pre season ticket sales, and it looks increasingly likely we are going to be forced into a us vs them situation in terms of getting Flitcroft out. For us, we want to see some cause for optimism and also being able to get behind the manager. Right now, the DoF seems to relegate the manager to a head coach and the head coach has been set up to fail. I'd agree a lot of us saw this coming - my scepticism started when AC was appointed. In part for me I wanted a manager, not a coach. And to a lesser extent it had the whiff of the club tightening its belt with budgeting. The successive transfer windows, the last 3 now, beg the question of whether the club is being set up to fail. That the financial tightening led to lay offs, compromises in recruitment that affected even DF. Ultimately somebody is accountable, and I'd like to know what the club will do to set this right. Promises of renewed optimism and enticing deals to get a ST won't cut it for me. I'd be optimistic and want to get a ST regardless. So: Why have we failed in the last 3 transfer windows? Why do we have a disruptive loan policy for team cohesion? We simply can't operate in half seasons if we want to progress Why have coaches (even DM right now) failed to get much out of the players? Has the investment into non-footballing areas shown any return on investment? Unfortunately the answer to all three for me is David Flitcroft. So Carol needs to then answer why has DF done so poorly. If it is an issue of budget, and she can't solve it, then she needs to ditch the DOF model and go for manager + recruitment team. If the answer is something else, then I'd like to know what senior leadership think this is, and what they plan to do to address it. Values, being nice and friendliness doesn't put food on the table or points on the board. Football is a results business and if Carol wants the club to do well then she needs to be willing to make difficult decisions. It's not nice for somebody to lose their job but ultimately if they can't do the job, or the job is not a right fit for the organisation, then you reorganise and find something that works. David Flitcroft owes nothing to this club and Port Vale Football Club owes nothing to David Flitcroft.

Our best players who we'd all keep will have suitors and be gone in the summer. Leaving us with Plant, Shorrock, etc to build around and the rest of the players we are stuck with but don't want. Really need Carol to make a commitment to review the footballing structure and make wide sweeping changes in order to turn around ours and hers, fortunes, My prediction next season is between 16th and 22nd if DF is still in charge of transfers. I'd not be surprised if Moore resigns so he can take a different job.

Hope that's not a 4-1-1-1-3 you're suggesting there. Though its probably fair to what our midfield has looked like in past games tbf, easy to get past 😄

I'd bet there will be some fan forum events coming in the summer. I would imagine this meeting was called as an impromptu crisis management meeting; so holding a forum for everyone just wasn't practical. Nor desireable either, it's not especially great press. I'm not quite sure what this 'being told what was discussed' means. It mentions what topics were discussed. Are we expecting a transcript, or something?

Something else I was thinking about with the club's communication is how personal it often is. Like Carol often offers a personal perspective, refers to Dave as Flickers and even tries to give individuals credit in a public forum (I'm thinking about the open letter). What I don't really get though, is this seems really quite unprofessional. I'd much prefer the club to speak with one voice, using better, collective terminology rather than bringing certain individuals into the limelight because it often doesn't look good. A Comms director or manager should really be vetting and shaping the language and tone of voice in any public statements, including Carol's. It would do her good as well to allow her to be less the focal point of a lot of criticism. Flitcroft as well for that matter. I noticed looking over at our neighbours they've announced some fan forum stuff for the coming season as well, so there's clearly an issue there too in the city. Maybe, hopefully there were some things learned from the meeting that the club can take away and improve for the future. Above all though I just want to see 3 points on Saturday. UTV.

Been involved in a number of these sorts of things at work before now. If they are listening, then it's good. It could also be trying to manage the message somewhat, most likely. Job done it seems, has been posted on here to clarify and urge people get behind the team. Which to be honest, I think 99% of us already are. I don't appreciate the inference that support for the club on the pitch and criticism of the backroom being mutually exclusive. They aren't. Fans are, and are willing to do both. It's good that they listened but the only thing that matters is results and ultimately that's where the club and leadership will be judged, but they know that. I can guess they are trying to stave off any whiff of protests, but I don't really see that happening just yet. Many fed up seem to be declaring they will walk away for a bit for their own well being instead in the mean time. I've thought about the same, but it hasn't reached that point for me yet. I'd suggest the club focuses on the number 1 task of getting points on the board and saving our L1 status. The communication improvements needs to wait until the summer. Would be a very good idea to have a strategic review and rethink how these things are done and delivered. It all seemed to be pretty good at one point under Carol's tenure, round about the time there were lay offs, Martin left and others including Colin Garlic. Those are some of the big mistakes the club has made from the 'community' point of view. Something the club seems to try to place more importance on than the playing budget and recruitment.

Fans have every right to boo and vent frustration when it calls for it. Like now. The players are (mostly) grown adults who should understand that, and channel their own frustration and ours into something more productive. Being a soft touch because you’re low on confidence and things not going well, perhaps it’s not for you. If it can’t be recognised the fans intentions are actually in the right place, then they should move on. Support comes in many forms. Would it better if supporters just walk away because they are a bit soft? They should be more worried people will not turn up to pay their wages, or react at all. Silence is deafening and all that.

I wonder what the age of these fans are she is speaking to. I grew up supporting the club in the height of the Rudge years, so to me, our place is in the Championship. But I recognise that historically, we've usually been lower than that. So if she's speaking to people much older than me, they might just want a Vale to exist and probably don't mind so much about where we are. At the very least though we should be an established League 1 side, and we have been miles away from that for many years now.

I don't mind loan signings really but I think we need to be saying no if the players are simply to be recalled after 6 months. If we take on a player it should be our prerogative whether they stay or not. If that means we miss out on certain talent, then so be it. A season is too long to risk destabilizing because a player has been recalled and we have built around that player. I still think Flitcroft and Carol are still looking at the season (and the longer term) in the abstract so are not worrying at this stage. They will worry but probably when it is too late. Same with why Crosby was given far too much time and was probably hired to begin with.

League 1 I would think. Given the tendency to loan players as we will probably need to, the quality drop off will be big if we are League 2. If we go down, I fear revenues will and the money that Carol may be thinking about investing becomes what is needed just to repair the situation. Whereas, if we are in League 1 we might be able to kick on. I wouldn't want Darrell back, personally. We have Moore, and he deserves backing. Though I am starting to have reservations with him already trying different systems in every game, with no clear plan how to attack teams and score goals, which we need. Foyle as head of scouting I'm ambivalent about, personally I want the club to show ambition beyond people that have previous links to the club. Flitcroft should go or move into a technical role away from Footballing Duties. I'd really like some clarity from Carol / Dave what the contingencies and plans are for when we go down, because that is extremely likely at the moment.

It's the small time thinking of only considering what's and who in our catchment area why we were so stagnant for 20 years before Carol came into the club. We need somebody well travelled, experienced as well as having a good eye and negotiating skills.

Believe me, not my first choice 😄 but it's the best choice given the reasons for moving. And buying the club wouldn't be an option, sadly. I'd be mad enough to if I had the money.

I'm moving back to Stoke this year (selling my flat in London) and would want to get a ST for next year, but the way things are, I am thinking twice about getting one. I just want the club to be forward thinking, forever challenging itself. Even if that means moving the likes of Flitcroft on after a few years. Surely an ambitious club should always be looking to do that? He has done some good in non footballing stuff, but we are heading to the abyss with him in charge of recruitment.

Relegation to L2 with DF’s recruitment has to make Carol’s hairs stand on end. If she is adding to the budget to make us 18th budget in L1, this team would be required to go up first time of asking and even mid table would be a big ask in L2 with the squad we have and players that we will lose. Eventually Carol will learn but the ‘this is fine’ sipping her tea while our club burns thanks to DF will only last for so long before she’s either reaching for the fire extinguisher or the fire exit.

I wouldn't blame her for going on the pitch screaming "Where am I", now. What a mess.

I saw something like that lurking on the oatcake this morning. I wouldn't blame them, would be very funny to see their supposed great owners take them to the third tier for the third time.

Most teams in this formation do this, not a chance I'd want to risk a single DM covering all that ground. The most worrying aspect is Lowe in midfield for me, if we can't get the midfield right then the entire team falls apart. No progression on the pitch, and so pedestrian in the middle the defence are served up for a slaughter. The problem with Moore's crap subs isn't that the subs he is making are crap, it's the subs themselves are crap. We lack options and they are basically downgrades every time a sub is made. It's hard to blame him for what he has to work with.

This is just dumb. Wasting time listening to manager comment as if you're ever going to hear anything insightful when it's always, always going to be the same old tired things. Yawn. Also don't see any alternatives that would apparently do better either. Yes, lets blame DF (and he should go) but it's not going to change absolutely anything at this point. We have a poor squad who can't score at present, Moore's been appointed and has made some changes to his credit even if things don't look good. It's the best, and only chance we have now of saving the season. Let's just take it game to game, eh?

What the fresh hell is this? 3 Games man. Get out.

Honestly not sure if these are genuine questions seeking understanding or just statements that it doesn't matter to yourselves. Either way, there's a separate forum for this sort of discussion (and it's nothing to do with this thread) so I will leave it there. Not a hill I particularly care to die on at any rate.

Just to clarify, the whole thing with the rainbow ball is an EFL thing, not a Vale thing. But yeah this stuff, it matters and makes a difference to the minority / marginalised. Pretty much the whole point to it.

Seems to be getting a bit old school, the idea that there is a manager responsible for buying and selling players in this day and age. Agreed Moore should be focused on formations and tactics, player man management and working with a recruitment department with a DoF to identify and bring in players. It hasn't really been clear if the manager (Crosby) had much say at all, Clarke seemed to be involved when he was around though. I think we can take a leaf out of our neighbour's book here, and do what they have done with removing Ricky Martin. It might be that DF still has something to offer in other areas but I think we've seen enough to say that his transfer and recruitment involvement has been a failure. Get somebody else in - if that's what DM wants and it's somebody DM can work with. Ultimately though it's Carol's investment and I think the naivety of the decisions made will fail to see us go much further (indeed we are going backwards and in a worse position on the pitch than when we started). Hope I'm wrong, mind - but that's just how I feel right now.

No to selling up for me, unless it made complete sense for the club to do so. IE. Greater investment. What's needed is to bolster the backroom. Either move DF over to the things she said he is good at (which, the transfer activity wasn't really mentioned), and look to bring in somebody else to handle the recruitment side of things. I do also think it would be better to lower the profile of the owners by having people employed in positions to do those front facing jobs instead. Stay in the background. Owners being too front and centre and being hands on isn't great when things are not going well. Basically what Spunky said.

Hoping that we get a big win and survive while we are still in the 200 club.

Not a nice thing to say to your granddad mate.