Todays Attendance!!!!

[ChrisR]

Is that a fact or an assumption?......the attendance looked about right to me today

 

It's an incorrect assumption.

 

Stoke count all ST holders, Vale don't.

[Pete T]

A good mate from Merch days is a Pilgrims die hard. they won't bring 200.

[Coskickabo]

Wimbledon are a club run by the fans with a similar constitution to Vale's. After the club was uprooted and moved to Milton Keynes they started again from scratch. During the nine years that we've plummeted to where we are now they've come from the Ryman League South to the Football League. Their average home gates are around 4,300 and they've just recruited four new players so where are we going wrong.

[Family Stand Terrier]

Simple really, its going wrong because of individuals. The fan run idea is a good one that a lot of fans bought into literally. In my opinion, the day poll votes were introduced was the day we were no longer a fan run club. We became a club run by a handful of wealthier fans than the majority. Their motivation ceased being that of doing whats best for the club but centred on self preservation.

 

What winds me up is when vermin like Oliver say fans should buy more shares. The man is a grade a pr**k and cant see that fans simply cant afford. That doesn't make them less of a fan, or thick. It is views such as his that mean we are no longer a fan run club, fans voices, shares, opinions are worthless without the support of the rich few.

[Andyregs]

Wimbledon are a club run by the fans with a similar constitution to Vale's. After the club was uprooted and moved to Milton Keynes they started again from scratch. During the nine years that we've plummeted to where we are now they've come from the Ryman League South to the Football League. Their average home gates are around 4,300 and they've just recruited four new players so where are we going wrong.

 

Perhaps they follow their constitution?

 

As for the attendance, it was interesting to look at some threads which were posted by during the first week of the season, especially the number of fans gloating that SEO has failed and we are getting promoted. Yet now SEO has damaged the club. The 'well done perry deakin' thread is also a bit of a laugh.

[MattW]

i doubt that the club do use the season ticket holders whether they attend or not.

 

It will be numbers through the gate.

[Bald Eagle]

It's an incorrect assumption.

 

Stoke count all ST holders, Vale don't.

 

This is my understanding also. Not sure what their following was yesterday, but one of the best all season and probably 600/700!

 

Attendances are holding up better than you would expect as many already have season tickets, and are therefore continuing to back the team without giving MOLD any more money (not buying drinks etc).

 

Walk ups must be way down, and if they do mange to cling to power ST numbers will be well down next year also as the overwhelming majority have reached the end of the line unless there is total change in the boardroom.

[Davebrad]

these are doing the oposite to what belly used to do...but he did it to pay less tax and to the other team in those days.so these adding it on should have to pay more vat??????

[biddulphvegas]

Wimbledon are a club run by the fans with a similar constitution to Vale's.

 

Wimbledon are set up as an Industrial Provident Society where the fans co-operatively own their football club, forging strong links to their community.

 

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/doing/small_firms/msr/societies/index.shtml

 

Here is their constitution... http://www.afcwimbledon.co.uk/aboutthetrust.php?Psection_id=10

 

Drawing any comparisons between AFC and us is like comparing chalk and cheese to be honest. We were sold a duff version of fan ownership, which many people bought into. But if PVFC were truly fan owned like AFC (and others) do you think messrs Deakin, Lloyd, Oliver etc would be able to hold onto power? Especially as IPS clubs are on a one-member, one-vote basis

 

I have spent a lot of time away from Vale whilst voting with my feet, looking at differing ownership models from all over Europe too. The IPS set up, in my opinion is a major option that we should be considering as an alternative to the current situation and, god forbid, single ownership. I have heard arguments against implementing it but the records speak for themselves in regards to AFC.

 

IPS guarantees that any surplus profits are invested into the club and not taken out, hence why AFC can afford players and we can't on similar attendances. FC United have managed to raise over £1m towards a new stadium on a membership base of just over 3000, an average home attendance of 2000 and all the while handing over a significant amount to Bury FC.

 

Further more, AFC have a sustainable business model as their members are involved in major decisions and ultimately the aspirations and direction the club should take. After all said and done, who are the 'mugs' who have to clean up all the mess left by regimes like ours and/or irresponsible single owners? Its US!

 

To become a member of the club (effectively a board member) all members pay an annual membership fee. FCUM have 3000 members, paying £12, on top of season tickets, walk up entrance, merchandise etc. At their level, this extra income is invaluable. Compare that to our situation, individual fans bought shares for £200 over 10 years ago! (£20 per year). If we could create a supporters trust set up on this basis, we could charge anything in the region of £40 per year to own your football club and have a steady income of membership fees on an annual basis, helping the club to make better business decisions both short term and long term. Exiles could own their own club too and all are safe in the knowledge that their vote WILL count alongside the votes of a significant investor.

 

Its a win-win situation for me and I think its the way all lower league clubs will go eventually. I can understand why anyone would love a single investor to take the Vale to the heady heights of the Championship again, however, will it be sustainable? Will we be back in the same position when his/her money dries up or starts to make rash/irresponsible decisions that are detriment to the club and supporters?

 

I would love for Vale to give this approach a go.

[X-Valiant]

It's an incorrect assumption.

 

Stoke count all ST holders, Vale don't.

 

Its a fact!

[Phil]

14th January, 23:36 #12

X-Valiant

Senior Member

Join Date: Dec 2008

Posts: 1,360 The attendance include's all season ticket sold even if they havent turned up for the game

 

No it doesn't.

[Bycarsbill]

there was no way 4300 were in today. they use the season ticket numbers if they attend or note. my mate and i thought more 3500

 

I agree--my estimate in conversation with my brother was no more than 3500--where do they get the figures from?!

[X-Valiant]

No it doesn't.

 

How do you know for sure?

[Andyregs]

Wimbledon are set up as an Industrial Provident Society where the fans co-operatively own their football club, forging strong links to their community.

 

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/doing/small_firms/msr/societies/index.shtml

 

Here is their constitution... http://www.afcwimbledon.co.uk/aboutthetrust.php?Psection_id=10

 

Drawing any comparisons between AFC and us is like comparing chalk and cheese to be honest. We were sold a duff version of fan ownership, which many people bought into. But if PVFC were truly fan owned like AFC (and others) do you think messrs Deakin, Lloyd, Oliver etc would be able to hold onto power? Especially as IPS clubs are on a one-member, one-vote basis

 

I have spent a lot of time away from Vale whilst voting with my feet, looking at differing ownership models from all over Europe too. The IPS set up, in my opinion is a major option that we should be considering as an alternative to the current situation and, god forbid, single ownership. I have heard arguments against implementing it but the records speak for themselves in regards to AFC.

 

IPS guarantees that any surplus profits are invested into the club and not taken out, hence why AFC can afford players and we can't on similar attendances. FC United have managed to raise over £1m towards a new stadium on a membership base of just over 3000, an average home attendance of 2000 and all the while handing over a significant amount to Bury FC.

 

Further more, AFC have a sustainable business model as their members are involved in major decisions and ultimately the aspirations and direction the club should take. After all said and done, who are the 'mugs' who have to clean up all the mess left by regimes like ours and/or irresponsible single owners? Its US!

 

To become a member of the club (effectively a board member) all members pay an annual membership fee. FCUM have 3000 members, paying £12, on top of season tickets, walk up entrance, merchandise etc. At their level, this extra income is invaluable. Compare that to our situation, individual fans bought shares for £200 over 10 years ago! (£20 per year). If we could create a supporters trust set up on this basis, we could charge anything in the region of £40 per year to own your football club and have a steady income of membership fees on an annual basis, helping the club to make better business decisions both short term and long term. Exiles could own their own club too and all are safe in the knowledge that their vote WILL count alongside the votes of a significant investor.

 

Its a win-win situation for me and I think its the way all lower league clubs will go eventually. I can understand why anyone would love a single investor to take the Vale to the heady heights of the Championship again, however, will it be sustainable? Will we be back in the same position when his/her money dries up or starts to make rash/irresponsible decisions that are detriment to the club and supporters?

 

I would love for Vale to give this approach a go.

 

There is not a chance in hell I would support a fans run club. Never did previously, and would be insane to do so now. Unless we are happy scraping around in league 2. Running the club by committee is madness as we have sen first hand.

We need ('God forbid') a single owner with a bit of cash, business skills and vision. I'm amazed that after what we have gone through, people are against it. The most successful time in our history was under one person remember. How many successful championship and premier clue are fans run clubs?

I'd be more likely to hand my cash over (in season tickets, merchandise, etc) to a properly run club. No chance I'd hand it over to a committee. And the kind of people who support fans run club still at vale would mean it would be a disaster! THe kind of people I'd trust to run it, wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. Those that would are them same plonkers who continue to say 'give them time', 'mar mate bill tried his best' and walked around giving victory sign to fans.

I understand some of the points you make, but we had our chance it didn't work.

[Phil]

15th January, 10:48 #28

X-Valiant

Senior Member

Join Date: Dec 2008

Posts: 1,361 Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil

No it doesn't.

 

How do you know for sure?

 

I've worked there and seen exactly how it is done. As for yesterday, I didn't think the gate was far off what it looked like.