Universal Nightmare

[geosname]

The benefits system isn't the problem, it's the abuse of the system that creates problems....

Changing the system doesn't necessarily reduce the abuse.

[cheshirevaliant]

Genocide, as I understand it, has to be against a particular national or ethnic group. This isn't the case here.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-11108059

 

I agree that Universal Credit is a very poor, ill thought out idea which has the potential to cause great suffering, but it isn't genocide.

[whotobeakiller]

The benefits system isn't the problem, it's the abuse of the system that creates problems....

Changing the system doesn't necessarily reduce the abuse.

 

Correct. I know someone who is working on the black market and continues to get these benefits, How he does It I do not know. The system cannot stop people working on the black market. In fact, if anything, it will force people to work on the Black market because people simply cannot rely on a food bank for 6 weeks and not be able to pay bills.

 

For people who do things 'above board'They can look for work, then start a job, get paid two week on a low minimum wage, then lose their job (Through no fault of their own Employers can hire and fire at will). They then go back to the DWP and sign on. Because they earned two weeks money that either brings down the benefit they get from the time they sign on or take them out completely as the two weeks working would be part of the two weeks they are unemployed (In the adjustment period) therefore they would have to wait another four weeks or longer before the end of the next adjustment period and therefore six or seven weeks without benefit

 

There's no way anybody can survive that long without financial assistance

[whotobeakiller]

Furthermore, the HMRC liase with the DWP on what a claimant was earning before he became unemployed. Why and how is this scheme legal when there are still people in the country on the old system getting paid from when they are unemployed but completely the opposite on the new system

 

We now have a two tier system therefore I cannot see how it is legal. People on Universal credit are being discriminated against for being on the new system

[whotobeakiller]

Genocide, as I understand it, has to be against a particular national or ethnic group. This isn't the case here.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-11108059

 

I agree that Universal Credit is a very poor, ill thought out idea which has the potential to cause great suffering, but it isn't genocide.

the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group or nation:

 

It is not exclusive to ethnic groups or of a particular nationality. It says deliberate killing of a large group of people-that in itself is what the DWP and tories are doing by directly creating a system where people get no assistance whatsoever. They have eradicated the safety net that has been in place for years.

 

If that isn't enough to want the Tories out of power, I don't know what is. Even people with loads of money and an ounce of morality should want the tories out for this

 

 

[cheshirevaliant]

the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group or nation:

 

It is not exclusive to ethnic groups or of a particular nationality. It says deliberate killing of a large group of people-that in itself is what the DWP and tories are doing by directly creating a system where people get no assistance whatsoever. They have eradicated the safety net that has been in place for years.

 

If that isn't enough to want the Tories out of power, I don't know what is. Even people with loads of money and an ounce of morality should want the tories out for this

 

 

 

Not exclusive no, but under no definition that I've seen does it mention class, which I suspect is the point you are getting at, or "people who don't have jobs".

[whotobeakiller]

Not exclusive no, but under no definition that I've seen does it mention class, which I suspect is the point you are getting at, or "people who don't have jobs".

 

The deliberate killing of a large group of people is the definition.

[Howjy04]

The old system allowed people not to have to go to work.The new one makes it better if they do.Simple really,go to work or do without.

[whotobeakiller]

The old system allowed people not to have to go to work.The new one makes it better if they do.Simple really,go to work or do without.

 

It's not as straight forward as that-many companies pay monthly and to work will incur costs such as motoring or food and indeed paying bills to keep a roof over your head. The system is designed to kill people and employers don't take on people who are struggling to eat or look after themselves

[Howjy04]

It's not as straight forward as that-many companies pay monthly and to work will incur costs such as motoring or food and indeed paying bills to keep a roof over your head. The system is designed to kill people and employers don't take on people who are struggling to eat or look after themselves

 

Most people get paid monthly including benefits claimants(4 weekly).Is there not a buffer payment going from the old system to the new one available?I agree there should be only a 4 week gap between the transfer from one to the other but work should be the first goal for everyone who can.There was no incentive to work with a 90% tax on money earned over and above benefits.I believe that is dropping to 60% with UC.

[whotobeakiller]

Most people get paid monthly including benefits claimants(4 weekly).Is there not a buffer payment going from the old system to the new one available?I agree there should be only a 4 week gap between the transfer from one to the other but work should be the first goal for everyone who can.There was no incentive to work with a 90% tax on money earned over and above benefits.I believe that is dropping to 60% with UC.

 

Universal credit system allows the following to happen-

 

1.Work one month for a company then get released at end of month,

 

2.Get paid for that month end of following month. The next month you are out of work. Universal credit then takes in to consideration your wages from the month before so for thenext month you are out of work you would get Nothing -Nil Benefit

 

There is an advance payment if that's what you mean by a 'Buffer' but it has to be payed back thus putting the claimant in debt but if you have already been paid it in the last six months you would not get it for a second time this even though you are out of work for a month you would get nothing based on your earnings from the month before!!

 

Crazy!!

[geosname]

Correct. I know someone who is working on the black market and continues to get these benefits, How he does It I do not know. The system cannot stop people working on the black market. In fact, if anything, it will force people to work on the Black market because people simply cannot rely on a food bank for 6 weeks and not be able to pay bills.

 

For people who do things 'above board'They can look for work, then start a job, get paid two week on a low minimum wage, then lose their job (Through no fault of their own Employers can hire and fire at will). They then go back to the DWP and sign on. Because they earned two weeks money that either brings down the benefit they get from the time they sign on or take them out completely as the two weeks working would be part of the two weeks they are unemployed (In the adjustment period) therefore they would have to wait another four weeks or longer before the end of the next adjustment period and therefore six or seven weeks without benefit

 

There's no way anybody can survive that long without financial assistance

 

Whichever system is in place some will abuse it..... the trick is to cut out the abuse without damaging the people it was meant to help.

Unfortunately I don't think either side of the political fence has the answer or the ability to think outside the box.

[For Us All]

The Office for National Statistics said the number of people in work nationally rose by 125,000 to 32.07 million in the three months to June, with the employment rate climbing by 0.3 per cent to a record 75.1 per cent.

[whotobeakiller]

The Office for National Statistics said the number of people in work nationally rose by 125,000 to 32.07 million in the three months to June, with the employment rate climbing by 0.3 per cent to a record 75.1 per cent.

 

Many are not even showing on the Universal credit system particularly the homeless. Other statistics are manipulated and taken off the books such as those forced to take sanctions and those wanting work but not getting the jsa element of the benefit. The 75% only represents those on the system and even that is not a true reflection as people sign on and off depending on agency work that may last just a week-these statistics are never considered

 

The universal credit system insists that people after full time employment take part time work to bring up their 'earnings' the flaw being the wait for the universal credit payment takes longer and distorts any payment due on any other benefit depending on hours worked.