Vote: Safe standing at Vale Park?

[Family Stand Terrier]

Your point about fire I accept. Your other points I refer you to my post #20. The problem with Heysel, Hillsborough and also the Ibrox disaster (which incidentally had nothing to do with hooliganism) in the early 70's involves uncontrolled mass movement of, in these cases, supporters. A crowd of say 200 people all moving together will create a far greater force than 20 individual sets of 10. Therefore you have to keep people separated as much as possible. Seating by its sheer presence will keep people apart, thus not allowing that uncontrollable force to build. This is the basis behind "safe standing" where numerous rails will also prevent the above. And it was this uncontrollable force (albeit in different circumstances ) which caused so much loss of life in the above matches.

 

You're against safe standing, but you're using the old style and design of terracing to argue your point. I agree we shouldn't return to terracing with fences surrounding people with one single point of entry / exit. However, safe standing is as far removed from that situation than you can get. As Jacko mentioned, standing in seating areas happens week in week out, and creates far more risk of injury than safe standing would...or simply sitting down in your seats (but hard to enforce).

 

I don't think Vale are able to do this, even if we wanted to as we were in the Championship when the law was changed and went to all seater. As a result I don't think the law allows us to return to terracing, so we can't be part of any pilot initiative. I may be wrong on that though, as I would have thought those rules apply to West Brom, and I know they've put themselves forward to be part of a pilot.

 

The Lorne Street lends itself to the idea given it's current state, however I'm not sure if it is possible given the gradient. That may not be an issue though in the case of safe standing. If and when it's something we're legally allowed to introduce, and if funds aren't prohibitive, then I definitely think we should look to do it.

[RailwayRowdy]

You're against safe standing, but you're using the old style and design of terracing to argue your point. I agree we shouldn't return to terracing with fences surrounding people with one single point of entry / exit. However, safe standing is as far removed from that situation than you can get. As Jacko mentioned, standing in seating areas happens week in week out, and creates far more risk of injury than safe standing would...or simply sitting down in your seats (but hard to enforce).

 

I don't think Vale are able to do this, even if we wanted to as we were in the Championship when the law was changed and went to all seater. As a result I don't think the law allows us to return to terracing, so we can't be part of any pilot initiative. I may be wrong on that though, as I would have thought those rules apply to West Brom, and I know they've put themselves forward to be part of a pilot.

 

The Lorne Street lends itself to the idea given it's current state, however I'm not sure if it is possible given the gradient. That may not be an issue though in the case of safe standing. If and when it's something we're legally allowed to introduce, and if funds aren't prohibitive, then I definitely think we should look to do it.

I'm not against terracing as such, I just see it as a step backwards.

[Family Stand Terrier]

I'm not against terracing as such, I just see it as a step backwards.

Why, it's completely different?

 

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[RailwayRowdy]

Why, it's completely different?

 

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How do you mean ? I don't understand what you're asking me.

[Family Stand Terrier]

How do you mean ? I don't understand what you're asking me.

I don't understand how it's a step backwards, safe standing is new and completely different to anything that has gone before.

 

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[RailwayRowdy]

I don't understand how it's a step backwards, safe standing is new and completely different to anything that has gone before.

 

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Oh I see. If you look at my post you first responded to, I agreed that safe standing seems to address the old issue's. I said along the lines that numerous rails would be installed so as uncontrolled movement should not happen. That I accept. If people want it fine, but I still see it as a step backwards. It seems to work in other countries, but it worked here for decades before disaster struck. However I acknowledge your comments but perhaps we shall just have to differ on this.

[Jacko51]

Oh I see. If you look at my post you first responded to, I agreed that safe standing seems to address the old issue's. I said along the lines that numerous rails would be installed so as uncontrolled movement should not happen. That I accept. If people want it fine, but I still see it as a step backwards. It seems to work in other countries, but it worked here for decades before disaster struck. However I acknowledge your comments but perhaps we shall just have to differ on this.

 

I don't think it did work here for decades RR unless you mean nobody died. The viewing experience on standing terraces was frequently appalling. I went to a quarter final cup replay between Leicester and Wolves in 1971? I stood on the side terrace at Filbert Street - I started at the back of the terrace, ended up at the front and I swear my feet never touched the ground on the way!

[RailwayRowdy]

I don't think it did work here for decades RR unless you mean nobody died. The viewing experience on standing terraces was frequently appalling. I went to a quarter final cup replay between Leicester and Wolves in 1971? I stood on the side terrace at Filbert Street - I started at the back of the terrace, ended up at the front and I swear my feet never touched the ground on the way!

The standing "experience" would have been one of my points too, but of course that is personal preference and so is not too valid an argument for people who want to stand. As a short a**e who has stood on virtually every terrace in the football league, I was used to seeing virtually nothing of the game when surrounded by blokes over 6' ! But yes, "worked" in this case refers to no fatalities.

[Bea Smith]

The new style standing areas with pull down seats would not allow a Hillsbrough, which in any case was caused by fencing rather than standing.

Football fans have a right to watch standing up, it is part of the game, and it should not be difficult to make it a safe experience.

The all-seater rules were Thatcher and her cronies revenge on working class football fans, who she despised, and on Liverpool in particular whose people she hated even more.

 

Many other countries have safe standing areas, and recent tragic events like the Grenfell fire have proved that football grounds are not the most dangerous places.

 

Safety priorities should be elsewhere when we are talking of relatively very small crowds in the lower 2 divisions.

 

Vale Park in particular, with such a huge capacity for L2, would be ideal for more than one safe standing area, and if a game came along where a 15,000-plus crowd was expected (Cup tie v Stoke, Man U) then the seating rule could be used for that game and it made all ticket.

[bookworm]

Don't think it matters a great deal because next season there will be that much room to put your feet up you'll be able to stand sit or lie down depending on your preference.

[RailwayRowdy]

The new style standing areas with pull down seats would not allow a Hillsbrough, which in any case was caused by fencing rather than standing.

Football fans have a right to watch standing up, it is part of the game, and it should not be difficult to make it a safe experience.

The all-seater rules were Thatcher and her cronies revenge on working class football fans, who she despised, and on Liverpool in particular whose people she hated even more.

 

Many other countries have safe standing areas, and recent tragic events like the Grenfell fire have proved that football grounds are not the most dangerous places.

 

Safety priorities should be elsewhere when we are talking of relatively very small crowds in the lower 2 divisions.

 

Vale Park in particular, with such a huge capacity for L2, would be ideal for more than one safe standing area, and if a game came along where a 15,000-plus crowd was expected (Cup tie v Stoke, Man U) then the seating rule could be used for that game and it made all ticket.

Going off tack, but been to Liverpool today and newsagents still proudly advertise "we don't sell The Sun" Why anyone would want to swap one for hard cash anyway is anyone's guess.