Shropshire_Valiant

Definately, I think sometimes we tend to label some players as worse than they are because they were part of a poor side in general or vice versa some players may not actually have been that good but because they were part of a more successful side they get away with it. Jones has been part of both and I still don't rate him so I'm not sure what that tells us?😁

Blimey I'd forgotten one or two of them(probably just as well!!😁). I can't remember Wilson playing much at all tbh but wiki says he managed 7 games for us, he'd had 2 or 3 decent spells for other clubs before playing for Vale. Somewhat similarly(although the other way around) Jules has also gone on to have a decent lower league career elsewhere since(he scored against us the other week to rub it in as well!!) although admittedly he was shocking for us but I reckon both of them could perhaps be down to them either not feeling it in relatively short spells or poor management as both showed ability elsewhere. So I'd probably rank those 2 nearer the bottom of the list. I'd have to rank Mills, Jones and Fitzpatrick higher as they made more appearances. 1st Mills 2nd Jones 3rd Fitzpatrick 4th Jules 5th Wilson 6th Crookes It's actually tough to compare like for like with some of them as it could be argued some were more left sided CBs than actual full backs. I also said Jones was one of the worst players I've ever seen not necessarily the worst. I could probably name a few more to add to that list if you gave me time as well. We've had some shockers since good old Allen Tankard on the left side of defence!

I'd generally say the SPL(or bottom end of it) is our League One standard and he managed pretty much 3 full seasons for them and came through the ranks at Forest with a few games for the first team. I'm not saying he's good, far from it but I'd much rather have that experience than Jones if I had to pick one or the other. Lets be honest it's like arguing which is worse constipation or diarrhoea! I don't envy some of the job Moore has to do if I'm honest!💩

All opinions I guess, Jones is truly one of the worst footballers I've ever seen in 30 odd years of watching the game. His performance at Barnsley on the opening day was embarassing, he's non league standard and his career stats would suggest that. Cass I thought was half decent the first half of our promotion season before he got injured and I personally have seen far worse than Iacovitti he must have something to have played for the 1 or 2 of the clubs he has. Like I said though I could honestly clear out 90% of our defence from last season and not lose sleep over it, I do agree though we probably aren't going to get rid of all of them so will have to make do and mend with 3 or 4 most likely. Whoever ratified a 2 year deal for Jones(and a few others tbh) ought to be strung up by the short and curlies from the floodlights.

A good 8 or 9 signings needed really however we dress it up!

I can't see how anyone would keep Jones over Iacovitti and Cass!? Swap those around in someway and you're not far off what I'd be looking to do either! Jones can't pass, head or tackle, poor injury record and wasn't very good in league two last time! Get rid, a true liability of a footballer! Tbh none of our defenders last season particularly covered themselves with glory so Smith is a lucky boy he's contracted as well imo but he wasn't bad in league two previously so that probably just saves him. Wynne we can't really judge as we've not seen him play but we need an out and out left back so would make sense in someways to give him a chance. Uche I can see the physicality side of his game being useful but we can't afford 2 forwards who don't score(him and Loft) so that's my issue there. Loft simply has to be moved on if Uche stays.

Ryan Bowman lives on the same road as me, often see him walking his dog! Last time I spoke to him he said he was contemplating coaching badges as not sure what the future held for him. He was expecting to be released.

Indeed I hope you're right as if we do again what we did this season there's no doubt in my mind we're heading for the national league😬. More poor or lack of signings will also lead to lower ST and matchday sales and thus starts the vicious circle!

Haven't read all the thread so apologies if I'm repeating. My take on it is we can't keep sacking managers as that will show there are serious issues to how the club is being run and would put off potential new managers as a result(hire and fire club sort of thing). I'm not saying Moore has been good(yet) either but there are obvious caveats there for all to see if you wish to defend him. It's also rubbish imo to suggest Crosby would have done any better, he was dreadfully out of his depth and but for the League Cup run could and should have gone much earlier. He also had the benefit of 2 class young lads/underage internationals in midfield and we were still losing games and playing poor football. All that said we know the root of the problems lies in rank bad recruitment and I think Moore at least deserves the chance to shape a squad during the close season.

I'd also guess at least one of Garrity and Chislett will be sold as 10+ goals in a poor side from midfield won't be sniffed at by some.

Agree with most of that. Crimes that list of 9 is concerning! I'd honestly hope to not see a good 6 of those in a Vale shirt again after this season but that's probably asking too much? I'd say pay off or move on Sang, Grant, Lowe and Jones for starters. Age probably saves Debrah as he could improve? I think there's something there with him but at times he looks like Bambi on ice as well. Problem is that also leaves Smith and Yak, in terms of revamping a failing defence is that too many to give us any great scope for change?🤔 I'm not a great fan of Smith but he is experienced and was half decent in League Two in our promotion season. That leaves Ojo who on ability should be decent in league two(but has looked largely disinterested since Crosby and is probably one of our higher earners) and the much maligned Lofty lad who we are probably going to have to persevere with even if it's only a back up striker if that area of the team can also have a revamp!

I think Chesterfield will be dangerous they've been too good for the NL this season(also Cook's a good manager and I think they have a bit of coin behind them?) otherwise you wouldn't think any of those who look like being involved with the playoffs to be any particular great shakes in League Two? Perhaps aside from a bit of momentum that normally comes from a confident promoted side. I'd love to see Gateshead or Halifax come up as I've never been to either ground(or seen Vale play either for that matter) but the London clubs Barnet, Bromley look the form sides in there. Altrincham for the size of club have had a cracking season. A nice easy one on the tram from Manchester if they made it, although I suspect their away allocation won't be particularly big having been to Moss Road before for a friendly. Shouldn't forget Solihull either, that would be another new ground/team. Can't say I've ever looked at what their ground is like for the potential of league football.

Some very short memories on this thread and the other Moore Out one. Comments like Crosby would have kept us up and we wouldn't have thrown leads away?🙃🤔🤪 Crosby was attricious and had better players at his disposal, that's not to defend Moore either but we can't keep sacking managers, how about the useless players(in the most part) accept some responsibility or we actually give Moore the chance to build a squad next season? Fine if he's struggling after 10-12 games of next season or we lose the first 6 playing crap start sharpening you shovels and pitchforks but come on? You can't polish a <ovf censored>! This is probably the worst Vale side at 3rd tier level I've had the misfortune to watch in 30 odd years and could top the Sinnott/Glover side if allowed to continue into next season! Absolving the youth lads of any blame there's literally about 3 I'd keep the rest have proved one way or another they're either useless or not up for the fight! Without saying/typing it again I'm somewhere on the same page as Spunkers 2 posts!

Well I don't want to see most of them in a Vale shirt beyond this season! Sod them off!

A very welcome if not slightly surprising result last night. It certainly doesn't make tonight a free hit as a bad defeat could do significant damage to the GD but for the first time in a while our destiny is totally back in our own hands(at least until after tonights 90 minutes). Everything crossed for an unlikely win tonight to keep it that way eh😜 That said it does now mean that IF we can win the 3 home games it would leave Burton needing to win 3 from 4 and Cheltenham 4 from 5(or win 3 draw 2) to better us. Still a long and I'd imagine twisty way to go yet though but we have hope which was fading with every passing day 2 or 3 weeks ago!

Isn't it lose by more than 1 goal to drop into the bottom 4? Burton have scored 33 to our 38 if the GD is equal! Or is the 2nd separator something else?

Wycombe Saturday is probably one they will target as well(not much to play for). I know a number of Shrews fans who still think they are in trouble or at least squeeky bum. Fail to win Saturday and they could be right with Bolton and Charlton away to follow there's the potential they could be dragged right into the fertiliser.

Some good points and generally I agree. I think the reliance on loans has come back to bite us(2nd half of the season). Whilst one of the things I applaud Flitcroft for was perhaps brokering those relationships with 'big clubs', and they are useful to have you should never rely on loanees as your best players. They should be a bonus to your permanent players. OK in Arblaster and Devine they became 2 of our best players which is great, but when they inevitably leave(as they are both Championship standard players and above possibly even at 18-20 yo) it shouldn't rip the heart out of the team and leave you with a poor and unbalanced squad. Lets be honest we weren't a brilliant side with them both playing 90% of the time. Weir and Gore(although we've not seen him really) were never going to hit those standards. That's no slight on either of them or Vale in the loan market but it's shows how sadly lacking the club has been in the permanent transfer market since we've been in league one.

Don't Bristol go to Cheltenham as well in the next 3? My only hope from that one is it's a local derby to some extent and Bristol you'd imagine will be taking 1000+ fans? You would hope they'd make some effort for them to appease their bad run a bit(even if they are safe).

Agree 0 points from those 2(Shrewsbury & Cheltenham), 1 from Fleetwood and splitting the points with Carlisle and Burton tells you all you need to know if we do go that's basically why. I think win the 3 home games and we have a fair to middling chance imho. The annoying thing is a couple of (decent)signings in January and we'd have probably been comfortable (around where Bristol Rovers/Wycombe/Wigan are in the table). Can anyone honestly say that would have been too much to ask or punching above our weight for Vale budget and size of club wise? Personnally I don't think so!

Shrewsbury's 2 wins over us are basically what's keeping them out of the brown stuff(obviously they've won a few other games) but if we hadn't been so darned poor at home and trying to walk it in at their place even 1 win out of the 2 or at least a point they'd have been right in it with us. Still it is what it is, sadly(for us at least) I think they'll scramble the 1 win or couple of points they need to stay up, as bad a run in as it looks.

Agree I've said for a while to lose twice to Shrewsbury and Cheltenham and only get 1 point off Fleetwood we basically deserve to go down. 46 games won't lie as they say. I know Shrewsbury fans who are surprised they aren't down there with us as they think they are rubbish, you could say their 2 wins over us are what's going to keep them out of any last minute dog fight.

Why do you need to know? What's done is done. A very sad situation allround and in another time or place he may still have been our manager but it is what it is! The reason I mentioned it is because I see people blaming the roots of Vale's current plight on sacking him. All I'm saying is I can see why they made the decision, it's what's happened(or hasn't in terms of signings!) since that is more to blame imho.

I'm not gutted for the owners if we go down, it's a harsh lesson in how not to run a football club(on the pitch). The warning signs were there from the 2nd half of last season and weren't heeded and more poor decisions were made. This coupled with not listening to the supporters until it's too late I don't have too much sympathy, it's 75% at least self inflicted. Yes they've done a lot of great work at the club on a crumbling infrastructure(off the pitch) but the 2 facets need to run side by side. I don't blame getting rid of Clarke(that's an unfortunate one where a number of things have conspired against him and the club but sadly at the time I think he had to go, if what I've heard is true). However we then appoint a manager with links to a squad/system that had started to struggle/fail already and coupled with our dum cluck DOF the rest we all know! As others have said it's the hope that kills you, we still have a chance but like Darren on the previous page I'll be honest I can't wait until it's over and relegation most likely confirmed. We can do all the conotations to death I'd be surprised if we get above 2 sides, Burton maybe but I think Cheltenham will pip us to it(oh the irony). Otherwise unless there is an almighty collapse and/or point deductions for 1 of Shrewsbury, Cambridge or Reading I think we are roundly buggered!

Haven't read a lot of the thread so apologies if I'm repeating anything, I think the fact we have staff who were "supporting" Flitcroft I assume with the "donkey work" on stats/scouting etc on potential signings can still prove useful? Can they not report to Moore with their findings then he makes the overall decision on whether we try and sign said player? Then when it comes to thrashing out the financials if it's more complicated obviously someone higher up the chain in the club Carol/Kevin whoever would have to be involved in discussions. Obviously something somewhere in the "process" has been going wrong under Flitcroft so clearly that needs ironing out by the club moving forward!