[PVFC Meet delegation of fans regarding current concerns]

20 minutes ago, Bede said:

I wrote the following account yesterday but decided to sleep on it before posting.  I feel I must now clarify, given the responses since the release of the official statement.

OK, so to first explain how this has come about.  I am the co-founder of the Black & Gold Group, but also current sitting Secretary of the Supporters' Club.  The SC, B&G and NLV have all been interwoven for many years, simply because we are all Vale fans with the same ultimate aims.  We all offer differing viewpoints on things but remain active together to provide a widespread view on situations. B&G have remained active, albeit in the background, for many years, mainly as observers and researchers.  With my SC hat on, we have been increasingly frustrated with everything at the club, same as everyone else.  We therefore requested a committee meeting a couple of months or so ago with the inclusion of Matt Hancock, who has offered himself up to the SC as the conduit between us and the club.  The relationship between SC and club has drifted apart as we feel that the club have not wanted to engage with us, and it seems that they have hijacked events that the SC have traditionally held, on behalf of the fans.  We all feel that the club are trying to control everything.  This meeting was intense.  I'm not slow at coming forward with my views, and neither is Paul Dixon, and Matt got absolute pelters.  To his credit, he took it all very well.  Never argued, never complained, never flounced off or made excuses.  He took it all in.

Following that meeting, Mark Porter, Paul Dixon, and I have remained in constant contact with Matt, intensely pointing out the level of unrest amongst the fanbase.  He could quite easily cease communications with me because I have hardly been complimentary at times, but I have tried to reflect the level of anger, frustration, disappointment, and downright disengagement from the club.  Matt has actively sought to understand all of that.  We then held another meeting with Matt to delve a little deeper into the supporter discontent.  This then led to Matt setting up a meeting with Carol for him relay the mounting concerns to her, with her full attention.  It was then mutually agreed that a meeting should be held between us to face this head on.  During this period, other fans have also been voicing their concerns in their own ways to the club, so we therefore asked them to join in a collaborative effort.

Matt then gave us a list of dates that Carol would be available, and the meeting was set.  At no point were we given a time limit, a limit on numbers of members that could attend, or any actual pre-requisites at all.  All that was asked towards the date looming was a list of names of those attending.  The meeting was initially going to be between us and just Matt Hancock and Carol.  A couple of us then debated the merits of also requesting the attendance of Paddy.  We decided against it, but then as the meeting approached, we were told that Carol would like him to attend.  We ran it by our groups, and it was agreed that he should attend.

So, on Monday evening, we held a meeting between 7pm until just gone 10pm.  The burning topic, of course, was David Flitcroft.  My view remains that I cannot see his position anything other than untenable.  A sentiment held by all of us on our side of the table.  Let's not dress that up any other way. The overwhelming evidence of fans in the ground, fans in the pubs, fans on social media, forums such as this and radio phone-ins, is that very few have remaining faith in our Director of Football.  You must understand that, had we sat down and screamed that Flitcroft is a w***** and he needs to f*** off, a 3-hour meeting would not have lasted 3 minutes.  And we would also be doing a dis-service to the other points that needed addressing.

We went into the meeting well researched, with a formal agenda from which to raise our points.  After lots and lots of debate around the obvious, we then discussed the other topics; those being the communications coming out of the club, the problems with ticketing, the matchday supporter facilities and overall 'experience' and the potential for better fan engagement with the club going forward.  The club seemed surprised at some of the issues raised.  They did admit failings in communication, they also saw a different viewpoint on the other topics that they had not considered.  Above all else, they appeared genuinely shocked and saddened at what we were telling them, in terms of the overall disconnect between fans and club.

Now, we all know that admitting failure, and expressing shock and sadness at things is all well and good, but they need to let their actions do the talking.  We hope that they now understand that loud and clear.  It's over to them to deliver results.

So please let me make it abundantly clear.  We recognise that fans are not happy.  This season, we have seen fans fighting amongst themselves in the stands.  We have seen much anger directed at Flitcroft, at our players for abject performances.  We have seen growing complaints against the disparity of ground improvements.  We have an utterly unworkable relationship between the Supporters' Club and the club.  We have seen an alarming lack of respect shown to us fans by the club, not least by way of Carol's letter, David Flitcroft's Podcast, and the ignorance displayed towards our concerns at the last fans' forum.

We are taking those issues to the club because they all need to be fixed.  Do not think for one moment that we are easily pacified.  But we must be logical.  We cannot just rock up with a list of demands.  There will have to be compromise and understanding from both sides.  The first step in that healing process is to meet and hit the problems head on.  Monday's meeting was exactly that.  We don't have any answers, or results to report back on, from one solitary, intense meeting.  But it is the start of some much needed honest and frank dialogue.  How this pans out is yet to be decided. 

We've been in much worse states.  We have battled to remove two rogue owners in the last 13 or so years.  These owners are not rogue.  But it's fair to say they have misaligned their focus.  Please support us in regaining that.  And please understand our respect for the Shanahan family, despite all our current differences.

We've hopefully now opened doors and we look forward to the club holding much more open dialogue with the wider fanbase.

Thanks for that, both the write up and for trying to get us out of this horrendous situation. 

I know you can't come on here and disclose specific details of your conversations but do you get the sense that there is any appreciation (at the top) of our concerns re Flitcroft? 

[Happy Clappers Club]

17 hours ago, Killersrevenge44 said:

Just call him 'Mr H'

Huh?

[Synectics Sold]

Just now, Spunk Trumpet said:

Sorry for not updating my details that I left there almost 5 years ago.

Bradwell.

Youre welcome.

TBF I did edit my response before I saw you'd written this, it didn't really have any bearing on your post so I apologise.

I try not to engage in Vale-related social media (the odd newsy twitter account aside), I think it's pretty foul and almost all of the people I speak to in person feel quite proud of the community side of things. Its the football stuff that's an embarrassment. I've said on here before but I don't feel it's an either/ or kind of thing - we're not a tedious side because we're also feeding vulnerable families. If we stopped the foodbank, the staff wouldn't be drafted over to the recruitment 'team'. If you now differently, I'd be genuinely interested in hearing it but I see the community side as the one speck of gold in the <ovf censored> at the moment.

[Synectics Sold]

.

[Synectics Sold]

2 hours ago, Killersrevenge44 said:

How do you know that he doesn't know what the average fan thinks! 🤔

I didn't say it wasn't. 

[Synectics Sold]

4 hours ago, Spunk Trumpet said:

The average fan. Of which there are thousands of us…… Want us to be successful on the pitch and couldn’t care less (and this is with all due respect) about the <ovf censored> community.

How do you know what the average fan thinks?

[Synectics Sold]

1 hour ago, Heatwave said:

Root: from Greek 'phila' meaning 'lover of' and 'anthropos' meaning humanity. So in the broadest sense of the word Mother Teresa (Saint Teresa of Calcutta) was a philanthropist, but in the modern sense it's used to refer to rich people who give money to help people worse off. Is Carol in that category? I'll let you make your mind up on that one.

Yes, I think she is. I remember her saying that one of the reasons they bought the Vale was so that they could use the club's massive kitchens to help feed vulnerable families. 

Football is understandably the priority for the majority of the fanbase but there is a much larger picture and I think that's what the family are looking at when they talk about the campus and a legacy. The club and Burslem at large have a symbiotic relationship and, if managed well, both will prosper and benefit each other. 

[Synectics Sold]

5 minutes ago, Emile said:

Seems like the old arguing with idiots / loosing battle phrase can be used here 

Clearly been an influx of trolls. 

[Recruitment]

7 minutes ago, Emile said:

The cost us at the start of the season and they've cost us even more since January

The exasperating thing is that we made exactly the same mistakes last season. Went in to the season with an incomplete squad, Flitcroft gambling on some stupid shortcut (2 cheapo keepers rather than spending some money on arguably the most important player in the team), ended up playing games without any forwards and sank down the table. I remember us limping out of the league cup due to having nothing up front and the usuals all bleating that it was fine, we never did well in that competition anyway. Then bleating that we were saving our budget in January so we could splurge on decent players in the close season, and that recruitment was poor because we had a short pre-season and "no League One muscle memory" (FFS). I don't mind gambles and mistakes, so long as you learn from them. DF clearly isn't. For all his list of players that we missed out on in January, it all comes back to his decision during the summer that we weren't going to invest in a strikeforce. He seemed to think he was quite clever when he announced that last year.

[Synectics Sold]

For those who are hoping that the Shanahans spend a load more of their money on the Vale, how would they do this? We'd still be stuck with only being able to spend 60ish % of income on the football side, wouldn't we? We can't even hope for some dodgy MCFC style OTT sponsorship deal now that Synectics is sold.

[Synectics Sold]

Wouldn't blame the Shanahans if they <ovf censored> off and left us to it. If my mum/ wife/ daughter was Carol I'd be begging her to walk out of the club and never come back.

[Change of ownership]

25 minutes ago, JohnJames said:

Carol dropped a massive clod with her letter. She’s now placed herself in a no win situation. She can’t sack DF now without looking daft .

Flitcroft needs to resign but why would he? It's not like anyone else would want him.

[Darren Moore]

Ah, right. TBF, both camps are pretty idiotic.

[Darren Moore]

1 minute ago, Osh said:

Jesus Christ.  We've got some really stupid fuckers as fans

Which ones? Those mindlessly parroting the official club line and backing something which was clearly going off the rails, or the wally going on about sacking Moore? 

[Nathan Smith]

 

[Nathan Smith]

Just now, Valiiant said:

You're adorable.

If someone is spouting random crap and borderline trolling, they'll get little back.

It was neither trolling nor spouting random crap. You're a repeatedly banned poster who lives (or at least was living) abroad and often spoke of their 'love' for LFC. There was a thread on here about a year or so ago, with screenshots, of you posting on another forum 'supporting' spurs. You rejoined this forum about a year ago and have posted almost entirely negative messages, most recently slating our longest serving player and the best owner we've had in living memory. At least VFIA is consistent and attends games. 

I'll leave it there and put you on ignore.

[Nathan Smith]

Just now, Valiiant said:

Apparently I'm "Beechy", support Tottenham, or was it Liverpool, don't got to games, and have multiple accounts, including randomly on some other forum which you actually didn't even name.

Not sure if I'm being trolled or I've simply missed something. Bu I'll be whatever and whoever you want me to be. My opinion on Carol won't change one little bit.

I'll ask again. Are you the person who used to post as Beechy? A simple yes or no will suffice. 

[Nathan Smith]

3 minutes ago, Valiiant said:

 

Are you mental? I have no idea what you're rambling about. Tottenham? Premier League? I've never mentioned such a thing. You also randomly made up that I don't go to games, yet more than likely have been more to you this season despite what I think of the current staff, and Crosby before that.

You're probably an adult. Grow up and stop spouting random <ovf censored> just because you don't like what I post. I literally have never noticed you post before, for crying out loud.

So you're not the poster who used to go by the name of Beechy then?

[Nathan Smith]

11 minutes ago, Valiiant said:

Spurs fan? I don't got to games? Are you feeling alright there, mate? It's not even 10pm, go easy on the pop.

And yes, I'll criticise Carol for sure, the same as I gave her praise when she deserved it. Sorry to hurt your feelings. I'll apologise once you've put your toys back in your pram.

There was a thread on here about it when you were posting on there. You can't even keep your Premier League team consistent. What happened to your 'love' of Liverpool, Beechy? 

My toys aren't out of the pram, I'm very concerned with the way the club's heading and have been  vocal in my criticisms of Flitcroft. Just think reactionary threads coming from a game player like you are a bit galling. 

[Nathan Smith]

1 hour ago, Valiiant said:

 

How long do we have to just put up with this plonker for? This isn't a reactionary post just because he made a tit of himself today. But he's not improved any aspect of his game since he first started out. Commitment only gets you so far, or at least it should. He has zero football ability and often either gets out muscles or out paced by forwards week in, week out. One of many that needs shipping out this summer regardless of what league we're in. He's utter crap.

What would you know? Weren't you posting on a different forum as a spurs fan not so long ago? You don't go to any games, you pop up in numerous guises, consistently get banned for your adolescent insults and then pop up a year or so later under another psuedonym acting like some expert on all things Vale. The nerve of someone like you slating Carol.

[An Open Letter from Carol]

Maybe if Flitcroft hadn't decided back in the summer that he'd found a cheat mode for squad building, didn't need to bother with buying a striker and could depend on goals from midfield instead, he wouldn't have had to approach (and get turned down by) 174 players this January.

[Lincoln City (H) match thread - 24th Feb]

11 minutes ago, darren1810 said:

 we're a bit dire

Agreed. 

We weren't always like this though, were we? Earlier this season, under Crosby and with largely the same set of players, there was a vast majority of fans praising the football we were playing. Maybe that weird run of wins was flukey but the football was generally entertaining even if we weren't exactly scoring for fun. What's changed? Obviously having a paper thin squad due to back-ups not being very good and first teamers injured hasn't helped, but it's odd to see how wretched we are now compared with us playing relatively well earlier in the season. Have we just been found out? General malaise around the club? I dunno... 

[Reading (A) match thread - 20th Feb]

Just now, Vtid said:

Sure you were only saying a few days back we need to grind out results & we ain’t gonna be playing entertaining football. We need to get stuck in show some fight etc etc and keep it tight. So far we have done 🤷‍♂️ 

He was all over a Tottenham forum a few months back , saying what a huge fan he was of them - there was a thread on here about it. Just ignore him.

[David Flitcroft Out]

19 minutes ago, robf said:

I may be being overly simplistic but I see it as:

• Infrastructure improvements - great to have
• A competitive, balanced first-team squad - must have

In order of priority:

1) First-team squad
2) Infrastructure

 

Agree with everything you've written but I do wonder if it's a case of one or the other though? I presumed they were prety much separate projects. I don't know if we can blame things like the campus, 'championship ready' infrastructure and the like on us not having a complete squad. Won't they be different budgets, staff etc?

[David Flitcroft Out]

Wanting a complete squad and for us to have the players where we can actually compete against the likes of Carlisle, Fleetwood and Cheltenham are not unrealistic expectations.