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JoeB2
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Posts posted by JoeB2
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To put it bluntly:
We need to win both the remaining home games (as Bolton is a write off) to leave us on 46.
Cheltenham need to pick up less than 3 points against Cheltenham, Reading, and Fleetwood. If they pick up 3 points we’ll need to overturn a GD deficit of 5.
OR
Shrewsbury lose all 3 games vs Charlton, Bolton, and Orient, and we stay up on GD (both of us currently on -30)
It basically rests on us winning the same number of games in the next 3 as we have in our last 20, and either Cheltenham or Shrews really ballsing it. 99% chance we’re gone, probably all but confirmed tomorrow.
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6 minutes ago, Birches Head Fred said:
Can't see Moore quitting, especially as his team of backroom staff recently joined too.
I have a feeling that funds will be made available as soon as the season ends to rebuild, whichever division we are in.
I think that's what persuaded him to join in the first place.
I also think we fans may be surprised at the level of funds made available.If his rumoured wage is true then there’s 100% money available.
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Why would Moore walk away from hundreds of thousands of pounds?
Even if he only gets paid off to the value of 12 months, that’s still a load of money.
He isn’t resigning. He won’t be sacked.
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Why? What would a public apology do? I was in favour of it previously but now think it’s just a waste of time and more ‘circus’ shenanigans. We’ve had enough silly statements for the next decade.
Just quietly get relegated without drawing too much attention to ourselves and spend the summer sorting it all out. No slogans, statements, nowt. Just win games of football next season and everything quickly gets forgotten.
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I know it’s not exactly the focus right now, but their third goal yesterday was lovely.
18 year old flicked it over the defenders first-time, then volleyed home by a 19 year old.
Exeter have done very well since coming up with us. Stick with Caldwell when it was easier to sack him, a lot of sensible business. Relied on a lot of loans but made it work.
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12 minutes ago, pete vale said:
Can someone with accountancy accumen explain to me the reasoning behind the said £3M+ loss and loans outstanding owed. I'm told that the Shanahan's have ploughed up to £12 million into the club (I may be wrong on the exact amount). I assume this is classed as a loan (to their own business?) and recoverable either by sale or can it be offset in the Synectics accounts in some guise. We must have made decent profit in hospitality and merchandising. I remember Smurthwaite 'creaming off' the profit from catering/ hospitality etc and languishing the debt onto another side of the business, namely Port Vale FC? How does it work in the finance world. To me it's a mess that could have been avoided to this extent.
To me people with an existing, successful business don't walk into another venture and totally screw it up, football knowledge or not? Money is money afterall.
It is a very surreal, strange situation, one not witnessed before? Or is the current situation merely a 'wolf in sheeps clothing scenario'? Hard to believe, I'd hate to think we've been hoodwinked. I do hope as a footnote that DM was not recruited off the back of a 3 hour face-time interview?
She paid around £5m and had loaned us, interest-free, £8m, over 5 years.
Of course the losses are greater now, but that’s down to two factors:
1. Losses are higher across the football pyramid. Nearly every club is insolvent and reliant on director’s loans. Our losses have been very manageable (1m a year) until last season where clearly we made a dog’s breakfast out of League 1. Comparing losses for previous owners is useless.
2. 3.4m is a fairly standard loss for League 1. Very normal. It’s bad for us, but common for a lot of teams. You have to be spending way in excess of what you bring in to compete. Unfortunately, Carol fell for the BS from Flitcroft and consequently the money was poorly spent.
It’s clearly ‘give Carol a kicking’ season which is understandable- her poor leadership has squandered the opportunity created in May 2022 and set us back several years and several million. She should have listened earlier and set up a far better quality assurance structure to assess where the money was going.
I’m not coming out to bat for her. I was raising concerns in the immediate summer after promotion where our signings were non-existent and we played minimal friendlies. I had worries in January 2022 when we seemed to bundle home a load of questionable signings and very nearly fell out of the playoffs. It was a circus then, held together by a very good manager.
However, let us not rewrite history. Carol’s first two seasons were Covid-impacted, and in her first full season with fans we went up. Survival in League 1 was acceptable, if underwhelming last year, and then this year has been a disaster.
Folks emotionally predicting we’re on our way to non-league, that Carol has killed us, and that she hasn’t a clue what she’s doing are (in my view) emotionally and angrily lashing out after a relegation.
The fundamental truth, however some try to twist it, is that PVFC will always incur losses of at least 1m a year (as every club does) and someone has to pick up that bill. Carol is the current fool daft enough to do so, for the ego trip and adrenaline rush.
I’m really not bothered about apologies or ‘taking responsibility’, or making her March through Burslem whilst we chant ‘shame’ At her.
She just needs to quietly and without fuss go away, learn from the mistakes, and do what she did in 21/22. Moore’s rumoured wage suggests she is more than happy to throw more money at the financial black hole of PVFC. The alternative is she sells up, incurring about a £10m loss, to (most likely) a consortium of investors who would again have to foot the losses, without the attachment to the club or area.
We will be absolutely fine next year, and if I had to bet, I’d assume we’d have a fairly successful year considering the weakness of League 2 24/25. The cloth will have to be cut a large amount (which is probably going to force much-needed efficiencies) and the off-field structure needs completely reshaping, but as a serial moaner who is never satisfied I’m rather sanguine about it all.
The compounding effect of so many losses over the last 18 months have absolutely battered the fanbase emotionally. Everyone is knackered. There’s an intensity to how awful we’ve been. We’ve been crap for ages. We need the season to finish and to all find something else to do for 3 months. PVFC will be fine under Carol Shanahan - as much as that appears to be a controversial view on this thread.
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I think Garrity was in tears at the end yesterday. He cares.
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3 hours ago, RayWalkers40yarder said:
i can say hand on heart its the worst ive seen since 1987 !
It’s not even the worst since 2015.
Has everyone forgotten finishing 20th in League 2?
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There’s some sense and some nonsense in this.
Debt is part and parcel of football. Around 68/72 EFL clubs are insolvent. We would be in debt now, at likely similar levels, regardless of who bought us in 2019, give or take the odd million.
8m directors loans (or debt) in 5 years of ownership, considering there was a year of a pandemic with no fans, is really pretty normal and probably on the low side for a club bouncing between Leagues 1 and 2. If we broke even, folk would kick off for a lack of investment.
Agree with the points on her mistakes, the open letter, etc.
I’m not too bothered about her being held ‘accountable’, whatever that means. She just needs to put it right.
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Emotions running far too hot, lads.
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We made very little from the cup runs, by the way. Carabao prize funds are minimal compared to FA Cup.
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2 minutes ago, Killersrevenge44 said:
So every penny the club made from cup runs went into team investment? You talk like she never had a penny out of the club. I'm not buying it!
She has loaned us, interest-free, 8 million pounds from other companies she owns.
Buy whatever you want mate, it doesn’t change the facts.
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1 minute ago, Dipepa delight said:
Stop happy clapping fella
In life if you fail you have to have it
The players the owners the manager the lot deserve everything they get.
They have brought shame on every Vale fan tonight hope they can sleep in there beds at night there a disgrace to the shirt .
I think it’s fairly established I’m no happy clapper. I’m gutted about relegation and have been forthcoming, for about 18 months, in criticising the very obvious mistakes being made.
Deapite this, the club hasn’t been killed, and Carol doesn’t deserve attacks on her character. She’s led with good intentions and made a dog’s dinner of it, to her personal financial cost of millions loaned that will never be repaid.
Being in League 2 again will be rubbish, but we’re not dead. It’s just another very disappointing chapter in Port Vale 2000-present.
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League 2 is crap but will be pretty weak next year without Wrexham, Stockport, and Mansfield.
We all hate going down but a few are overreacting and some of stick going Carol’s way is creeping over the line. Criticise her decisions and not her as a person.
We aren’t going to go down again. We haven’t been ‘killed’. We have a bad couple of years and will have to take our medicine.
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Although relegation is bad can we please avoid the apocalyptic talk?
Killing the club etc etc
Carol has made a balls of it monumentally but a few could do with a pint and calming down.
She’ll be hurting just as much as we are tonight. It’s easy to forget she’s a well-intentioned person who has made mistakes, as we all have. This has been a series of very expensive and damaging mistakes.
However, we’ll be fine.
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Moore has won 5 of his last 37 games.
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I think there a 95% chance Darren Moore is our manager in August. There’s absolutely no financial reason for him to walk and I don’t think Carol will sack him.
He has manifestly failed in his primary job to keep us up, and there’s some very concerning things happening around game management, but we’re going to have to get used to him.
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I honestly think the rabbit-in-headlights second half from Moore is really worrying.
Yes, his squad is poor. As bad as Burton and Cheltenham’s? I’m not sure.
Exeter changed a lot and we didn’t seem to react. He subbed the only physical outlet for a weak, poor midfielder. He then just stood and watched as the entire fanbase could predict what would come.
I’ve been heartened by some of the improvements he’s made, but I’m genuinely not convinced by him from that.
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The second half was absolutely horrendous.
From the second the teams came out, with two changes made from their side, it was complete dominance for Exeter. Woods began to run things and we never had any concerted possession of the ball.
Moore was completely outwitted by Caldwell. His subs were appalling. Weir up front with Dipepa at 2-1 left us with no outlet at all - if Uche had to go off, Loft was the sub. The lack of change between 2-1 and 2-4 was startling. Incredibly passive with no effort to take a hold on things.
The lack of leadership within the squad was stark. The heads-down trudge at 2-2 spoke volumes. Not a single rallying cry. Only Chislett looked bothered as the game went on.
The microcosm of the players mentality could be witnessed at the end, for the 100 daft enough to stay. Moore scarpered immediately. The players sort of milled around in the centre circle, bereft of leadership. Uche convinced them to go and clap the fans.
They trudged round to silence and a few boos, and then Uche starting having a very aggressive debate with a fan. He had to be pulled away perhaps 5 times, returning time and again like a petulant child. Completely unedifying.
This was coming. I gave up at Derby, then gave myself belief when Flitcroft went and we beat Burton. I wanted to get behind them again.
Fundamentally this is a very, verypoor squad with a very poor character blend, lacking heart and courage in key moments. Letting 2 goal leads slip at Vale Park has killed us.
We have to look at Moore, unfortunately. Yes, the squad is poor, but 2 wins from 15 with a pretty decent run of fixtures is awful and makes Crosby’s record look decent. He will go into League 2 with a poor record, an unconvinced fanbase, and a squad pretty similar to now - all damaged by a relegation, a poor relationship with fans, and dreadful runs of form - it must be 2 wins in nearly 25 now.
I imagine relegation will be sealed at Bolton. Relegation to League 2 isn’t apocalyptic, and Carol will continue to pick up the tab to keep us existing - I hope. However, she needs to reflect on what has been an awful two years since promotion, a completely squandered opportunity. Decision-making has been poor, at best. It’s going to have to improve relatively soon or we’ll have bigger problems then losing 3M a year.
We’ll all turn up against next year, but this feels particularly damaging - I think we all felt a new era had dawned at Wembley. Feels now like a brief distraction from more of the same.
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Win today and we probably only need 4 from the last 3 games - 2 at home.
Its massive. Into these.
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30 minutes ago, Brian Johnson said:
How misinformed Andy Holt is.
No one is giving the owners stick
There’s one lad repeatedly calling her comedy Carol.
It’s the minority but it exists.
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10 minutes ago, JoeB2 said:
Confirmation for those who are refusing to accept it - the Shanahans have been loaning us 65k a week to keep us alive.
Sorry, losses are 65k a week. Loans over 55k a week.
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We are basically entirely dependent on Carol’s goodwill.
Something for us to reflect on - I’ll definitely be keeping it in mind when I air my frustrations.
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Wycombe (H) match thread - 16th April
in Port Vale present
Posted
Unlikely dream land:
Tonight
Vale win
Cheltenham beat Burton.
Burton 43
Vale 43
Cheltenham 41
Saturday
Vale lose to Bolton
Burton lose to Reading
Cheltenham lose to Lincoln
Burton 43
Vale 43
Cheltenham 41
Tuesday
Cheltenham lose to Posh
Saturday
Vale better Burton’s result
There’s probably a 5% chance of it happening, but there it is. Burton have to lose tonight and we have to win, and then we have to pray they don’t win again.