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JRC
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Posts posted by JRC
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32 minutes ago, Loggerheads Sage said:
But he did do a fantastic job there didn't he. Even you, with your hatred, surely must admit that. From the position they were in, when he took, to take it to the 90th minute of the last match was a real achievement. And their fans saw a team fighting, a team to be proud of - unlike us.
Not that you will admit that, lol. Haters always hate
Cheltenham have been almost as bad as us since we lost to them. They did quite well for a period when he took over. Big loss selling Goodwin during the window, although he's not pulled up trees at Oxford. His two transfer master strokes seems to be Pett and Taylor. Both of whom are now bottom half league one players. Our problem in January was trying to sign the next 4 Arblaster's and not signing anyone who was bottom half league 2 standard.
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3 minutes ago, Paul6754 said:
Yep JRC I agree but we shouldn't have been in that mini league, perhaps if we'd have held onto Ellis Harrison we may not have been.
Some wretched bad luck at crucial times as well, Deborah's header vs Fleetwood, The wicked deflection vs Exeter to get them back in the game at Vale park, the dubious pen decision in the 2nd min of added time at the end of the 1st half vs Cheltenham away but a good team doesn't allow these things to happen.
Remains a mystery why Ellis wanted away. Seems a player who likes collecting signing on fees. I agree I think he would have scored about 10 goals; which would have seen us stay up. His general hold up play was also pretty good.
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Just now, Vtid said:
They both are. You do know contracts mean nothing don’t you
I've worked on fixed-term contracts for 14 years. I know if my current employer let's me go tomorrow .... I get all the money I'm owed until September 2025. I know fixed term contracts offer a lot better protection than being on a permanent contract; with statutory redundancy being a fraction of what I'll get if I'm let go.
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2 minutes ago, Vtid said:
You forgetting our top scorer & hardest worker 🤔 Jones needs fooking right off
He's under contract.
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16 minutes ago, Paul6754 said:
No excuses for Vale, squad lacking in quality and unbalanced. Frustrating that Camb, Burton and Shrews are certainly no better but survived.
The truth is there was a mini league of poor teams with little between them. Those 3 and the 4 relegated teams. We had an awful record in games against those other 6 teams; which is why we've gone down. Some was bad luck Burton at home springs to mind), some was a lack of heart and sometimes we just weren't good enough.
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From the 30 minutes I watched I'm glad I forgot there was an early start.
I'm assuming some players have already been told they are leaving. Massey, Loft and Connor Run not in the squad. Think one or two are having a go at Ojo unfairly, he was the only player I saw put in a tackle. Every time he had the ball he was looking for a player to get into space but a lot of players looked like they just didn't want it. Hope the first 60 minutes was more entertaining than the 30 I sat through.
We do currently have a core of a team, Ojo, Smith, Lacovitti, Clark, Ripley, Chislett possibly Debrah are good enough to survive in league 2. Plant, Shorrock, Walters and Dipepa are not bad squad options; though not sure any are really first choice starters yet. In the ideal world we just need 11 new players. In reality we are probably stuck with players like Lowe and Jones. We have the retained list, which could well be out on Monday to look forward to. Can't take long to tell Massey, Uche and Wilson and Cass they won't get new contracts. I'd imagine they all know it's coming. Then it's really a case of whether we are that desperate to get rid of one or two we are just going to pay them up. It'll be expensive so they need to decide they just aren't worth keeping in the 22 man squad we are allowed.
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Dan Kemp is our of contract this summer. Does well everywhere he goes on loan; never works out for him at MK Dons. There's also a young player at Hartlepool who is pretty quick and started scoring goals called Joe Grey. Both can play as a second striker, either wing and as a 10. Both score goals.
We need to have 4 or 5 goal scorers in the group. Even someone like Ben Whitfield would improve us. He's developed a lot over the past couple of seasons and has become quite versatile. He's played wingback and centreforward for Barrow as well as on the wing and as a 10. The bottom line is someone like Ray Walker was never in the side to score goals. Our 3rd highest scorer has 4, something Walker regularly exceeded. We had Devine at the start of the season for a few games, more recently Dipepa and when we stupidly put Chislett on the bench for a few games the manager has not had any options to change a game.
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Dan Kemp is our of contract this summer. Does well everywhere he goes on loan; never works out for him at MK Dons. There's also a young player at Hartlepool who is pretty quick and started scoring goals called Joe Grey. Both can play as a second striker, either wing and as a 10. Both score goals.
We need to have 4 or 5 goal scorers in the group. Even someone like Ben Whitfield would improve us. He's developed a lot over the past couple of seasons and has become quite versatile. He's played wingback and centreforward for Barrow as well as on the wing and as a 10. The bottom line is someone like Ray Walker was never in the side to score goals. Our 3rd highest scorer has 4, something Walker regularly exceeded. We had Devine at the start of the season for a few games, more recently Dipepa and when we stupidly put Chislett on the bench for a few games the manager has not had any options to change a game.
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19 minutes ago, Alan Vit said:
WV
valeparklife posted Mike Baggaley’s Valiant piece a couple of posts after you asked.
Here’s another one -
There are more sites which reckon to know, if you search.
Nobody knows this season's wages outside the FA and the club. This site says our wages for this season are less than last; which I suspect in incorrect.
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5 hours ago, Brian Johnson said:
Nobody is as well funded like Wrexham below the Championship but Chesterfield are more well funded than Stockport and they are going to increase their budget this season.
Just a little example of Chesterfield's budget, they are currently paying Will Grigg £5k per week
2022/23 season Chesterfield and Stockport had the same revenues (within 50k) but Stockport's loss was 2 million more than Chesterfield. Don't know what Stockport paid their players as they don't release that information but Chesterfield spent 3.25 million on their player's wages. You'd imagine a reasonable part of the extra 2 million in loses was either transfer fees or wages.
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3 hours ago, Doha said:
I don't agree, and would say that is a very sad indictment in how the club has been run since the 1990s because we've spent the overwhelming majority of our history well above L2. 41 seasons in the Championship, 46 in L1.
For a lot of the clubs history the old league 2 was also the same as league 4 ... it was also the bottom league. We were also fortunate to be in league 2 when league 3 South was formed, as only 2 teams a season were relegated. We also dropped out of the football league twice during the first 20 odd years of it's existence; once for quite a few seasons.
What we now think of the football league was initially anything but. Teams in the South were all amateur and some northwest teams paid some of there players. It was a league set up for the small area of the country where clubs were allowed to pay some or all their players (basically Liverpool to Birmingham down what is now the M6). Broadly the same situation as the breakaway of Rugby League and Union. Division 3 was set up initially to expand the football league to the south. The first relegated team was Grimsby; which prompted a Division 3 North to be formed due to the travelling they had to do in their first season. A lot of clubs were mainly semi professional for quite a long time. I think the last semi professional we had was Mark Bright for his first year at the club. I'm pretty sure one of Ridley or Tartt was initially semi professional in the 70 when first signed.
A far more realistic time to judge is probably post 1958 when we were founder members of the 4th division when it was started. Without knowing the figures I'd guess we've spent 1/3 of the time in league 2 (league 4), half in league 1 (league 3) and maybe 1/6 in The Championship (league 2). Certainly anything pre WW II is meaningless. You could make a case anything pre Bosman is meaningless.
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20 minutes ago, Brian Johnson said:
Chesterfield's budget will be much bigger than ours
Chesterfield's wages and loss last season were almost identical to ours. It may go up a little and ours may go down marginally but they aren't as well funded as Stockport or Wrexham. A lot of the Salt money has gone into training facilities and developing community initiatives.
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2 hours ago, robf said:
I would agree with that. I have a feeling we'll lose at least one of Garrity and Chislett myself.
Hard one to call. I'm pretty sure Dipepa will be gone, one of the big clubs will put in a crazy offer. Not really sure what the market value of either of the others. Garrity is similar to Earle and Taylor but both a little older and not quite as good. Chislett is younger and technically a better player. Not quite as dynamic. Garrity could possibly get a Championship offer, Chislett maybe one of the bigger league 1 clubs.
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1 hour ago, Warren said:
I'm hopeful that appointing Darren Moore is signalling funding the team well in 2024/5. That is now to fight for promotion. I'm concerned PV doesn't become mired like Tranmere Rovers has as a club funded enough to stay clear of the bottom of L2 but with no prospects of getting back to L1 without new ownership.
Bradford have been well funded and stuck in League 2 for a while. I suspect our funding will be on a par with most of the teams in the playoff positions. Bradford, Notts County, maybe MK Dons, Carlisle and Gillingham are the only clubs who will probably have bigger budgets. Clearly we aren't Wrexham or Stockport who could buy the league. We'll have a top 10 budget. A lot then depends on recruitment and luck with injuries.
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The priority for the club must be to decide whether they cash in on Garrity and Chislett. If they are going to then really they can recruit for any formation. If they aren't then we need to play mainly with two 10s. Played consistently as a 10 Garrity would have scored 15 plus goals. He's decent playing deeper but not irreplaceable playing deeper.
On the assumption both stay we then need 2 strikers, another player as a 10, 2 midfield players, at least one left sided player and one right. Uche, Wilson, Massey and Cass will be let go. The 4 loan players to leave. Pretty much as much as they can do with the number of contracted players.
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48 minutes ago, JoeB2 said:
Think people will be disappointed by the retained list. There just isn’t much room for manoeuvre. I can see absolute hell up on Monday morning.
I don’t think we will ‘pay off’ anyone - a potential waste of money if someone is willing to loan them/take on most of their wages later on. It’s hundreds of thousands of pounds up front, to pay off the number of players some are calling for.
I think Massey and Wilson will be released, the loanees sent back, Uche and Wynne offered terms (which Uche will reject), and maybe 3-4 put on a transfer list. I’m not for one second saying I’m happy with any of this, just a prediction.
Like it or lump it, I think 15ish of this squad will be here next season, including Sang, Loft, and the other maligned lads.
I think you are spot on. The problem with placing under performing players on the transfer list is you can't really replace them until they move. The seasons we've listed a few players have tended to end badly. Having 3 or 4 unhappy players inside the club doesn't seem to end well in general. Short-term the focus needs to be replacing what we can. We must have spent a reasonable amount on the loans, so there's some money there.
They also need to revisit the quality to quantity argument. Last season there was a lack of quality, yet when injuries hit there was a lack of quantity. My own opinion is our best 11 was good enough to stay up. 2 or 3 injuries and we were miles off. I don't think we had more than average injuries.
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21 minutes ago, Rockape99 said:
I agree on all except Sang who had a whole season being shoehorned in right back / wing back /centre half and he a midfielder. He deserves at chance in midfield as he done what’s asked of him in a strange positions
He hasn't played the whole season being shoehorned in at RWB, he's played a few times in central midfield. He's just been poor when he's had the opportunity. His best game by far was as a right centrehalf. Despite someone recently changing his Wikipedia page Sang has played over 75% of his games at rightback or right wingback.
Initially I had thought his problem in midfield and on the right was a lack of pace. He actually isn't that slow running forward. He is that slow running backwards in defence. He also just doesn't read the game defensively in either position. Whatever decisions he makes defensively end up being wrong. His general passing is just hit and miss. His only attribute this season has been his crossing at times.
He'll still he here next season but he's in danger of falling out of the league for good thereafter. He's never held a regular position at either of his loans, Cardiff or with Vale. He's 25 in a couple of weeks and should now be at his peak. With the exception of the one game at right centrehalf his peak has looked several leagues below league 2.
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21 hours ago, PV1973 said:
Wasn’t he up front for us?
Played as a winger for us. Doesn't surprise me he's playing a little further back. Don't think he played a lot for us but my recollection was he was better running into space than creating his own space in tight situations. He was also quite well built. It's not unusual for that type of young winger to end up more successful at fullback. He's dropped down to National League a couple of times as I'm pretty sure he was at Aldershot for a while after leaving one of the London clubs. I can't think of any players who've made a success of their 3rd opportunity at league level.
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I suspect this will be at least a 2 year rebuild. Hopefully we can get Walters and Shorrock tied down on contracts. Dipepa will almost certainly leave but that will give us some money to play with. Priority has to be sorting the perennial leftback/ left wingback position and centreforward. Also tough calls on Chislett and Garrity as they only have 12 months on their contracts. I'd be surprised if either ever sign new contracts; so do we cash in and reinvest, or accept we lose both in 12 months? If we keep those 2 I think we need to play both just behind a main striker. Garrity is a little wasted as a sitting midfield player. If we'd recruited a decent midfield player to play alongside Ojo with Garrity further forward I suspect we'd have stayed up.
We are stuck with quite a lot of the squad. Positive is the 5 youth players have shown some fortitude in difficult times. We need midfield reinforcement to play alongside Ojo if he stays. We are stuck with 5 centrehalves (Lowe can't play any other position) unless someone is daft enough to buy one. Sang is a conundrum to solve. There is something there and he's under contract. He's not a rightback or holding midfield player. Hopefully Clark can play a full season.
If we can solve the centreforward and leftback problem I think we have enough to be just behind the playoffs.
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Well at least we showed some heart today. If we'd played like today second half against Exeter we'd still be in with a chance. Bottom line there were 7 poor sides in the league. Our results home and away against the other 6 (7 points in 11 games against those teams) has cost us dearly. The bottom line is the other bad teams picked up 26 points against us and with the exception of Cambridge and Burton they've done less well than us against sides outside that mini league. Can't remember the Cambridge game, so I suspect I was on a plane somewhere. Carlisle, Burton, Fleetwood, Cheltenham and Shrewsbury were no better than us overall, vitally they were just streetwise enough to take points off us in tight games.
Overall this season Portsmouth, Peterborough, Bolton and Derby clearly have way more quality than the rest. When at their best those 4 are better than the rest at their best. It's unrealistic to expect that type of quality in a club of our size. Outside those 4 I do feel we are able to compete; provided young players come through, we are able to recruit a little better and probably have a season with a bit of luck linked to injuries to key players. Big question for next season is do we look for experience in the hope of a quick return; or younger players with the potential to develop into league 1 players.
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5 minutes ago, Powerline said:
Christ just seen the stats. Thought we knew we needed to win!
The only stat that matters is 0 - 0. They have some very very good players. I'm not sure that any of our 11 would get on their bench. Listened to the home audio on iplayer going home from the beach prior to kickoff. They are prone to losing games on the counter when all over teams. Think that is the only hope. There is no way we have the players to play this Bolton side off the park.
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3 hours ago, Fosse69 said:
9 promotions 9 relegations for me, unfortunately the gulf between L1 and L2 is getting bigger, the Championship is now massive. As with the FA Cup fiasco the only decisions are about money for the few.
I'd agree with that. The gulf between league 1 and 2 is massive this time. The other difference during this league one stay has been how few of our players were ready for the step up. Proctor, Wilson, Garrity, Worrall, Connor Hall and Smith were probably the only players in any way good enough. Proctor and Wilson had unusual relatively injury free seasons when we went up. Worrall was very much at the end of his career. When we went up in 86 we had Jones, Earle, Bromage and Walker; who were all young enough to kick on and old enough to be experienced.
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35 minutes ago, darren1810 said:
The stats in general always seem to be cyclical. Hope I'm wrong but I don't see it for a few years. Maybe 5 years till we get back up.
Maybe, it's never taken more than 5 years to get out of league 2/4. I'd be a little surprised if we go straight back up.
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24 minutes ago, JoeB2 said:
A word of advice to stay away from social media when relegation is confirmed. We’ll rightly get pelters and it’s wholly unedifying to engage.
We are all grown men/women and please act like that when we’re relegated. Try not to make a holy show of yourself.
Evey season roughly 1 : 6 teams get relegated. I think this will be my 7th relegation in 55 seasons. It's never been the end of the world some predict. Yes it's extremely disappointing but history also shows we bounce back.
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Cambridge (H) Match Thread - 27th April
in Port Vale present
Posted
Never quite worked out why it all went wrong for Louis. He never had pace, so in theory could have carried on playing far longer in the lower leagues. His first season at Shrewsbury was probably his best. Not sure he was ever quite suited to playing 442. There was a little run of games when he partnered AJ Leitch-Smith when I thought both were outstanding as almost 2 false 9s. Never quite understood why Aspin signed him as he never really suited the way he ended up wanting to play. Maybe if Aspin had been brave enough to stick with the 3 5 2 he kept trying in preseason Louis would have done well as a 10.