Rob Fielding says the mounting debts under the current owners are an increasing cause for concern. He argues that “Vale’s losses seem huge in comparison with other similar clubs”.
Rob Fielding writes…
Over the years that they’ve owned the club there have been a lot of nice things said about the Shanahans. Some of those are deserved – we’ve seen two promotions and some much needed stadium improvements (including the opening of two new corporate areas and the seating of the Lorne St stand). However, their reign should not be viewed without constructive criticism.
Let’s take the club’s mounting debts.
When the Shanahans took over in 2019 they paid around £5m for the club (the actual amount was not disclosed). That apparently included several million to former owner Norman Smurthwaite. The football club was then debt free but after seven years of their reign the football club now owes around £13m to the owners. In 2022-23 the club lost £3.4m and in the latest figures – the 2023-24 season – the debt increased by £3.8m.
So, that’s a loss of over £7m in two football seasons which has resulted in the current £13m loan amount. While I appreciate that lots and lots of football clubs are losing money, Vale’s losses seem huge in comparison with other similar clubs (see table below). At the current rate, should the Shanahans reach ten years in charge then the debts would be touching £20m.
Comparison of finances over the same period
Here are a few other clubs’ annual returns to compare with Port Vale’s…
Note: Walsall made a £11,000 profit in 2023
Remember that these are loans.
They could technically be called in at any time and if they were, then barring a miracle, the club would probably go bust. The owners may write them off (note the emphasis on may) but even if they do the question still remains – why is the club losing so much money every season?
How the debt has accrued
Total (up to 2024) £13m
Let’s go back to that opening paragraph. The club opened two new corporate areas – Robbie’s and the Boardroom lounge areas. You’d imagine that with the additional space that these would be profitable – but still the debts continue to rise. Perhaps it’s not the corporate areas, perhaps it’s the team (after all that £3.8m lost in 2024 came during a period of turmoil on the pitch)? If that’s the case then why are the club so clearly living beyond their means on the football side? Furthermore, it doesn’t make sense that the football costs would do this as Football League regulations stipulate they can only be 60% of the club’s turnover.
So, it’s not entirely clear what the mounting loans are covering – football matters, stadium developments, off-pitch activities, all three or something else – but the indisputable fact is that the club is adding more and more debt to the Shanahans year on year. Not only is it unsustainable, it begs the question why, given their business acumen in other fields, are they not addressing this? Even if they were to write the loan amount off, it would represent a big personal loss and so it’s in their interests to reduce it.
There have been healthy season ticket sales in recent years, we’ve been told of record replica kit sales, we’ve had big money sales (such as the £1m+ Baylee Dipepa move), we’ve had a Wembley trip and glamour cup ties. Attendances are on average (and despite relegation) up about 2,000 (a 50% increase) on the Smurthwaite era. So, there’s lots of potential additional income there. Now, we have had stadia improvements (pitch work, seating the Lorne St stand, a new scoreboard, a new PA system, general maintenance and so on) but clearly not £13m worth of them. So, how come the club keeps losing so much money? Furthermore, what are the plans to address this as clearly the current financial model is just unsustainable.
Explaining things
Other clubs do a better job of explaining their figures…
Stoke City, like several other clubs provide an analysis of their figures on a page on their official website:
Shrewsbury Town go even further with an explanatory document by a supporter. In addition to this piece on their official website, there is a Word document to download and an email address for any questions.
One issue may be the sheer number of staff employed by the club – 488 – most not connected with the footballing side. In 2024, the club had 32 senior players. Even if you add in a coaching and support team of say 15-20 people plus the academy staff you’re still unlikely to reach three figures on the footballing side. So where were the other 388 employed? That whopping 488 employees figure is significantly more than clubs like Shrewsbury, Crewe or even Stoke City employed during the same period (see section below).
Taking Stoke as an example, the club has three times Vale’s turnover and their attendances (as clubs tend to need employees on matchdays it’s a good indicator) were more than three times those of Vale in 2023-24. Yet the Potters employed 122 less people. Another example could be Shrewsbury – whose 23/24 average attendance was not that far away from Vale’s – and yet the Shrews employed 167 people almost a third of the Vale total. Can the Valiants justify that 488 number considering such huge losses? See the chart below for the comparison figures.
Staffing levels
How many staff selected clubs employed according to their 2024 accounts
I hope this article has proved useful in taking a look at the club finances. I am anticipating that there may be some kickback to this article and people may respond along the lines of “be careful what you wish for” considering some of the owners we have had in our recent past. But I would argue that no football club owner should be considered exempt from constructive criticism when it is felt there is a genuine question to be asked. I have no axe to grind with the Shanahans. I think they have done some good things for the club, but as a fan I feel it is only right to ask questions when a huge debt puts a question mark over the club’s long-term viability.
If they wish to continue to be long-time owners or should that be custodians (whichever title you want to use) then I would argue they need to be both more sustainable (in terms of addressing the losses) and more open (with the fans about where the money goes). At the moment, it is not clear why our debts are mounting and why the club cannot follow the example of other clubs not only producing articles to explain their finances but also producing significantly lower losses.
So, what questions do I think the owners need to address? Let’s take a step back to May 7th 2019 when the Shanahans took over and ask these two questions:
- Speaking after the completion of their takeover the Shanahans told the BBC “We’re not going to gamble our future by spending ridiculous amounts.” With the club debts probably over the £13m mark, fans may feel justified in questioning that statement. There may (or may not) be a reasonable reason for that amount but with the lack of transparency from the club means we fans cannot tell. Why not produce a summary and analysis of the accounts as Stoke, Walsall and Shrewsbury all manage to do?
- When they paid a reported £5m for the club, Carol Shanahan said “we have paid far too much” for the club. Well, who will pay £13m+ for it should they wish to sell now? They will not be in charge forever, so what are their plans to reduce that mounting loan amount?
At the time of the takeover, chairman of the Supporters Club Mark Porter expressed his hope for the Shanahans to run the club on an “even keel” – seven years on, the owners would do well to heed that advice.
It should start with more clarity about what is causing the club to lose millions every year and a plan to try and stop it happening.
What do you think? A valid point or a load of rubbish? Share your comments below.
Article amended on 1/3/26 to amend the amount the Shanahans reported paid to Norman Smurthwaite to purchase the club
The Added cost of Backing Moore to fail , yes he got us up , but with a bloated squad and bigger wage bill . 30 odd players , man city of the EFL we r not .
Well done for the research you have done & well said with very little to nothing being said by the owners on the losses which as you point out is rising to frightening levels which I for one can only see one outcome for the club we love in the long ( possibly short ) term been going down bank since Flitcroft Darren Moore etc especially the loss of an well respected knowledgeable CEO Mr GARLICK anyway as always UTV
These are serious questions raised by Rob. I have previously shared some concerns about lack of expertise in the club. The CEO is a community football man, and has a good track record in that area. He has no obvious background as that senior business financial or football level executive. The CEO is the person who should be guarding against ever increasing debt. The other directors all seem to have come from Carol’s synectics business or from other general business contacts. Running Synectics is rather different from running a football club with an entirely different skill set and a very different employee base. There does not seem to be anyone in the Boardroom to act as an anchor to the owners and sometimes say no, or think again. The appointment of family members with no expertise in anything is another worrying sign of poor business strategy. Is there any football business expertise in the Boardroom, expertise based on experience and achievement? Was the loss of long standing highly capable members of staff (Garlick and Speed) done to clear the decks and bring in people in their own image and get rid of people who ask difficult questions, or were those two past their sell by date/?
Rob has already highlighted the bloated staff numbers. Add into that the ridiculous 5 year contract given to Darrell Clarke, and that monumental error was repeated with Darren Moore. Those decisions have swallowed a lot of money.
Money spent on the ground is to be applauded. However, should we not have considered a new ground, tailored for our gate size? Of course, the attachment to Burslem is vital to maintain but business requires tough decisions. Was the decision to remain at Vale Park and put money there properly thought through, especially given that the pitch is sited on a marl hole? Is the cost of patching up worth, or should parts of it be knocked down and rebuilt. Rob pointed out that the new stand at Stevenage cost only £1.5 million, and it looks perfect for a club of our size and stature.
How much does the academy cost us and what does it bring in? Is it value for money?
I still support Carol, and I still say that overall she has been a good owner However, the apparent lack of a coherent strategy to develop the club whilst living within our means is a worry. Does Carol have an exit plan? She should have one. What happens when her money, or her patience runs out? Was buying Port Vale a vanity project for her? I suspect in many ways that is exactly what it was. This is a crucial period, we could drop into oblivion very quickly unless we become solvent. Carol does not have the means to sustain these kind of losses, and neither should she be expected to.
The staged managed PR by the club ensures that no light is ever shone on these issues and the opaque accounts add to the perception of secrecy.
I hope for evidence of more openness and more realistic decisions around what Port Vale is and our place in the football world.
The place always appears to be overstaffed on match days. More stewards than necessary (yesterday they were lined up watching fans leave for some reason as if we were being inspected!). The Railway kiosk seemed to have a huge number of people to service what are 2 very brief busy spells i.e 2-30 til 3pm and halftime. It would be interesting to hear who gets to decide on these staffing levels – is it the club or do we get told by the stewarding company how many we need? Clearly they’d have a vested interest in talking it up.
Take a look at the club website to see the non-jobs that have been created. Get rid of half the social media people. No sane person gives a toss about how training has gone or the fact the team have arrived to play!
We’re a very soft touch in many ways and while the owner treats the club as somewhere between a football club and a benevolent society we always will be.
Reading through Rob’s article makes for very serious concerns regarding the club’s long term future. Whilst it would appear that the loans are not directly owed to the Shanahans but their other owned business(es), I am unsure whether these are for tax reduction purposes of all of these businesses or legitimate loans. Whatever the reason, I cannot see any sane person paying out around £20m to buy the club. So unless these are reduced significantly or substantially written off, I fear for the club’s long term future. And as usual we get no real communication about the situation from the club’s hierarchy which is also another disturbing fact.
Rob,
Did you approach Matt Hancock for an interview to discuss these issues?
Alan,
Not for an opinion piece, no. I have done for interviews and will always accommodate their statements, but I see no reason to ask the club when it’s my views (and questions).
Thanks,
Rob
There’s so much information we don’t know. 488 employees seems ridiculous, but how many are actually permanent full time or part time, temporary, or simply call in casuals covering ad hoc absences. There could be 50 or more in the latter category, covering retail assistance, cleaning, grounds maintenance. The clubs various commercial income streams are much more diverse than 40-50 years ago, but proportionally overall losses seem greater. What about the cost of terminating Clarke and Moore’s 5 year contracts. Paid out in full, or limited to a defined severance payment ? What was the value of Curtis and Cole’s transfer sales ? Did they raise £500K ? It’s clear that the owners prefer to manage and maintain their financials confidentially, and I don’t see that changing. Let’s hope the Shanahan’s can emulate Mr Coates down the road, and write off loans.
Thanks Rob it needs saying, I often wonder how the owners are going to sort THEIR MESS out yes it’s a mess I have often said they are killing Port Vale from the inside out.I have no faith in ths lady in any way
Rob a good and timely piece by you on Port Vale’s finances under the Shanahans. I’ve been worried about the financial position of the club for several years and have mentioned it several times here and in the Valiant concerning the transparency of the owners on the finances, the huge work force and how much goes to community regeneration. I have said quite a few times that first and foremost Port Vale is a football club it is not a community regeneration project I do wonder how much the Shanahans/ Port Vale are putting into the Dimensions project?
After the first relegation Carol did say the family had seriously thought about pulling out of the club. Will they ask the same question once this season has finished? I also share your concerns about how the club is run with the Shanahans making no secret of the fact that they know little about football and how to run a football club and they employ staff ( who they think do )have this knowledge and skill set.
Cheers UTV Chris HOPKIN
First of all can I congratulate Rob on the article. I’ve tried to raise my concerns about the Vales finances on a number of occasions, but no doubt came over as some bumbling idiot who has something against the Shanahans. To highlight just how bad Vale’s losses have become. Under Norman Smurthwaites 61/2 years reign, he claimed he had loans of £2million owed to him by the club. That equates to just over £300k a season, a stark contrast to last season’s £3.8million. As Rob rightly pointed out attendances have increased, T.V. Money has increased, the corporate side has increased, players sales have increased yet we continue to have these staggering losses. All this is impacting on the footballing side of Port Vale, yet it is the footballing side of the business that is bringing this money into the club. The Shanahans and Hancock for me show nothing but contempt towards the non corporate supporters. We had the ridiculous toilet situation in the Railway paddock, we have this closing of the Railway Stand down for cup matches, Charging us £1 for our season ticket cards, refusing to make statements or do interviews. Undisclosed transfers fees, yet these are common knowledge if you know someone in the nod, injuries to players. The club is run so secretively it’s as if their hiding things, Smurthwaite was more open than this lot.
A great article Rob.
I have for some time worried about the direction of the Shanahan-PVFC relationship. What’s the end game?
Right now, the debt is mounting, the fans are unhappy, and Carol clearly isn’t enjoying it. Her health is suffering again and I genuinely feel for her as she’s definitely a good person with good intentions.
I started a still-continuing thread questioning whether Carol needs to look, slowly and sensibly, at a sale. This isn’t because I want her hounded out, but because I feel she has achieved her goals and her ownership will only face diminishing returns from here. It’s more out of concern for a woman I have met and have a lot of respect, and concern, for.
Carol has stabilised PVFC, built the attendances, re-established community links, and has genuinely impacted the community. Her local profile is brilliant and she’s deservedly achieved an MBE. Wembley and Wimbledon are lifetime memories, indelibly linked to her ownership. She came in to a mess and we’re now a good, solid 3-4th tier club. It’s an unqualified success.
What else is there to gain? Another tilt at promotion, another £5-10m down the pan, and then perhaps another failed attempt at survival. Further stress and lost money. Debt spiralling to completely untenable levels. The money required to even finish mid-table League 1 is probably another £10-15m of losses, years of stress, all for 14th in the 3rd tier. Is it genuinely worth it if, again, her health is impacted?
If Carol sold this summer she would go down as a good owner who breathed life into a dying football club. If she’s happy to continue losing £4-5m per annum for a lot of stress, then fair enough, but I don’t think there’s going to be a ‘happy ending’. She would have something named after her, lifetime respect, and could attend games as a fan again.
I just think everyone has won out of this relationship and sometimes it’s best to end a night out early, rather than cling on till the sun comes up and you’re left blinking at the hangover.
Joe B. I do grasp your thoughts on this article. You mention that Carol came into the club while it was in a mess, which is a very fair comment. But no way would I say that we are a solid 3-4th division (league 1-2)club, and that’s an unqualified success! We’ve had 3 seasons at division 3 (or league 1) level and every one has been a diabolical failure. You question why should she continue and loose another£4-5 million per annum, as it costs £10-£15 million just for mid table mediocre, 14th in division 3 or (league 1). This is what the whole article is about, it should not be costing £4-5 million a season to do this. No one else is having these losses!! Everyone was grateful for the Shanahans for buying the club, and I think everyone would and could have excepted these losses possibly over one season, while major work was undertaken, or building blocks had been put into place to make us financially stable. But this has not been the case? No one wants Carol’s or anyone else’s health to suffer, and personally I get no pleasure in criticising Carol or anyone else for that matter. But you can not avoid the question, why is our club loosing so much money every season when other clubs similar in size are not. This is not an attack on the Shanahan’s, it’s just asking questions they seem happy to avoid.
It would be interesting to know how much of the losses relate to money pumped in for the Foundation, food banks etc
For total transparency…
The opinion piece is my personal opinion. I did not ask for any comment from the club for that piece as it’s my own views.
However, it was always my plan to reach out to the club to give them a chance to respond to my questions.
I have now asked the club for a response and should they do so, I will accommodate their reply in an article.
I think this is a fair approach. I have raised my initial questions and now I will offer the club a chance to respond.
Thanks,
Rob
Joe B I share some of your views but I am concerned about the large debt the club is building up on a yearly basis with a reliance on the Shanahans to make good the deficit each year. Even more worrying no explanation is being given by the club as to why this is happening every year. This funding arrangement however is , not a healthy situation for the Shanahans or the club to be in. Do the Shanahans have an exit strategy from the club what is their strategy to develop the club? It is inevitable when a change takes place there will be short, medium and long term risks to the club.
Everything said is spot on. The only person who can answer them is Carol herself. The only saving grace is the apparent sale of her business for a huge amount of money. She can afford to right off loans or add money in to cover it akin to Stoke’s owners doing.
The above said, how long can she carry on covering this? Yes she is a huge fan so probably will cover it but given her outside football excellent business sense, it clearly seems she needs some serious help when it comes to football financial affairs
The latest club accounts for year ended 30 June 2025 are to be filed with Companies House by 31 March 2026. Should make interesting reading!
I am all for helping the community but the community are not helping the Vale by going to support them through the turnstiles .
The extra staff is unsustainable when you are bleeding money and still paying monthly debts .
Its got to be back to basics and commonsense cut the cloth accordingly.
Fill the empty seats with schools some children will become future fans .
The owners are not like Stokes who bankroll their yearly debt .
I think we have to look at how much it took to pay off previous managers and their back room staff. A big mistake was putting so much faith in Moore and giving him such a long contract. We brought in players too who were at Championship or L1 clubs previously so the on field budget will have risen considerably since last season. The club shop has seen a massive increase in the range of products on offer and all the ground improvements I imagine paid for by the owners. The Shanahans inherited an old, creaking ground with many issues. There’s things we don’t see that have probably required attention and money. Bringing the whole club in to the 21st Century too (ticketing system, online services, new scoreboard, touchscreen info points etc etc) has no doubt taken its toll financially too. I think a drop back down to L2 will, in some ways, will now be a blessing. We’ll need to tighten our belt and be savvy with recruitment. Some big earners both on and off the pitch will need to go. The strategy of bringing in players when Moore said he needed them, so we had an inflated squad, rather than getting the best out of those he had has to be seen as a risky and costly exercise which can’t be repeated going forward.