Brexit again... - Page 723
onevalefan.co.ukonevalefan.co.uk
Close
Login to Your Account
onevalefan.co.uk forum - Powered by vBulletin


Hot Topics
Latest Posts Loading...
Loading...
Loading...
 
 
 
Loading...
Loading...
 
 
 
 

Page 723 of 778 FirstFirst ... 223623673713721722723724725733773 ... LastLast
Results 8,665 to 8,676 of 9325

Thread: Brexit again...

  1. #8665
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Greasby, Wirral
    Posts
    4,886
    Quote Originally Posted by mr.hobblesworth View Post
    I get to vote in the election of the new Tory Leader. I am concerned about what I will be left to vote for in the MP's reducing the choice to two. So, given normal circumstances I would probably favour someone like Michael Gove. I think he has learned lessons from being in government and having some failure. He also stuck at it, trying to influence from the inside whilst the Maybot took wrong path after wrong path.

    But he ain't going to cut it. The Conservatives face an existential threat, which may already be beyond recovery. Maybe Labour do as well from the Lib Dems. So it has to be Boris, a political beast who will step on the national stage and say and do stuff decisively. In particular he will stop playing nice with Corbyn and focus properly on this guy's nasty history and Marxist in a suit persona. The Maybot couldn't even manage that open goal in a general election she called coming up with the worst manifesto and worst leadership of a campaign ever.

    Boris will need to call and win a general election. That is where we are at. He probably needs a year to do that which means withdraw Article 50 and reset to leave via no deal but when all preparation has been made. In my view. I am sad about the Northern Island border situation, it is really serious and maybe insurmountable if the peace treaty is worded in such a way it can't be negotiated. But what can't happen is doing the same.

  2. Advert Advert


  3. #8666
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    twenty four hours from Tunstall
    Posts
    4,533
    Quote Originally Posted by Warren View Post
    I get to vote in the election of the new Tory Leader. I am concerned about what I will be left to vote for in the MP's reducing the choice to two. So, given normal circumstances I would probably favour someone like Michael Gove. I think he has learned lessons from being in government and having some failure. He also stuck at it, trying to influence from the inside whilst the Maybot took wrong path after wrong path.

    But he ain't going to cut it. The Conservatives face an existential threat, which may already be beyond recovery. Maybe Labour do as well from the Lib Dems. So it has to be Boris, a political beast who will step on the national stage and say and do stuff decisively. In particular he will stop playing nice with Corbyn and focus properly on this guy's nasty history and Marxist in a suit persona. The Maybot couldn't even manage that open goal in a general election she called coming up with the worst manifesto and worst leadership of a campaign ever.

    Boris will need to call and win a general election. That is where we are at. He probably needs a year to do that which means withdraw Article 50 and reset to leave via no deal but when all preparation has been made. In my view. I am sad about the Northern Island border situation, it is really serious and maybe insurmountable if the peace treaty is worded in such a way it can't be negotiated. But what can't happen is doing the same.
    Making a lot of assumptions there aren't we?

    The declared front runner in leadership elections rarely wins. I fully expect Boris to come to grief - probably by some ill considered comment, after all he has history for it as a lady currently in prison in Iran will testify.

    The Tory party will look into the abyss and realise the folly of letting Boris Johnson anywhere near the party leadership and the Prime Minister's office.

  4. #8667
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    twenty four hours from Tunstall
    Posts
    4,533
    Quote Originally Posted by Fosse69 View Post
    Then why not nationalize on national security grounds otherwise we are dependent on imports for high quality steel
    Seeing as Scunthorpe supplies almost all of Network Rail's requirements, and seeing as Network Rail is publicly owned, it wouldn't be a massive step for the works to be nationalised. It would, however, be prevented by an ideology that would sooner see 25,000 people lose their jobs.

  5. #8668
    Quote Originally Posted by Warren View Post
    In particular he will stop playing nice with Corbyn and focus properly on this guy's nasty history and Marxist in a suit persona.
    I know I'm biased but I don't think that washed with the public any more. When JC was first elected as leader, the first statement made by a tory (Fallon IIRC) was about how he was a threat to national security. That seems to be the main line of attack since and I don't think it's hurt him very much at all. The 'magic money tree' line was much more effective but now Labour can easily counter that with the extra cash the DUP were provided with to shore up May. Any election campaign, (especially if it happens once Brexit has been resolved (and **** knows how that's going to happen)), will IMO be fought on the conservatives record vs Labour 'economic irresponsibility' and I think we'll rip you a new one :) I also think green issues will be to the fore and that seems to be something Corbyn's Labour will be much stronger on. I'd also like to see Labour go in promising electoral reform and lowering the age of voting to 16, thus locking the tories out for generations.

    I also think Boris Johnson would be disastrous for the tories and very much hope he gets in. Unfortunately, I doubt he'll get in to the final two.

  6. #8669
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    twenty four hours from Tunstall
    Posts
    4,533
    Quote Originally Posted by philpvfc View Post
    Maybe too late but being a member of the EU for so many years has killed our manufacturing industry.
    Like they did in Germany you mean? Give your head a wobble.

    Free market economics and globalisation did for our manufacturing industry, not the EU.

  7. #8670
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    In a shed just behind OVF towers waiting for my ration book
    Posts
    15,353
    Quote Originally Posted by mr.hobblesworth View Post
    I know I'm biased but I don't think that washed with the public any more. When JC was first elected as leader, the first statement made by a tory (Fallon IIRC) was about how he was a threat to national security. That seems to be the main line of attack since and I don't think it's hurt him very much at all. The 'magic money tree' line was much more effective but now Labour can easily counter that with the extra cash the DUP were provided with to shore up May. Any election campaign, (especially if it happens once Brexit has been resolved (and **** knows how that's going to happen)), will IMO be fought on the conservatives record vs Labour 'economic irresponsibility' and I think we'll rip you a new one :) I also think green issues will be to the fore and that seems to be something Corbyn's Labour will be much stronger on. I'd also like to see Labour go in promising electoral reform and lowering the age of voting to 16, thus locking the tories out for generations.

    I also think Boris Johnson would be disastrous for the tories and very much hope he gets in. Unfortunately, I doubt he'll get in to the final two.
    If a GE is called quickly and Labour fight on economics they will lose it.... it will play it's part but I doubt it will be the HOT topic.
    Boris is a distraction, the loss leader if you will.
    I think the voting age should be increased not decreased.... but it won't happen.
    The two party system will crack but linger on for a while yet.

  8. #8671
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    twenty four hours from Tunstall
    Posts
    4,533
    Quote Originally Posted by geosname View Post
    If a GE is called quickly and Labour fight on economics they will lose it.... it will play it's part but I doubt it will be the HOT topic.
    Boris is a distraction, the loss leader if you will.
    I think the voting age should be increased not decreased.... but it won't happen.
    The two party system will crack but linger on for a while yet.
    I think it would take major defections from both parties to Change UK/Lib Dems to make any kind of impact electorally. It would also need Heidi Allen and Vince Cable to merge their parties or have some sort of electoral pact. Only then, if they won an election, could they get the legislation through for proportional representation that would be the death knell for the two party system.

    A big ask on all counts which is why it's not going to happen any time soon.

  9. #8672
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Trentham
    Posts
    4,614
    I think the centre parties will merge at some point or form a loose alliance as at present we have a very left of centre Labour Party and might end up with a hard right Tory Party, with slippery Farage possibly in the background for a while.
    In these circumstances it makes sense for politicians of moderate persuasion of all colours to coalesce towards the middle.
    I'd like that to happen but I'm not holding my breath in the immediate term.

    Looks like another interesting few months ahead. Johnson might be the antidote the Tories want to cure the Farage problem but he won't appeal to traditional, one nation Tories because he's too extreme and shoots from the hip in a silly immature manner. The Tories have as many Remainers and all other parties.
    But if they go for a more moderate leader like a Stewart they risk losing out to Farage.
    It's a dilemma that May could not solve and won't go away easily because of the numbers in the Commons where, like it or not, the majority are for remaining or a Soft Deal.

    If Labour had a more moderate leader they'd walk the next election.

  10. #8673
    Quote Originally Posted by TheSage View Post
    If Labour had a more moderate leader they'd walk the next election.
    Why didn't we win under Ed then?

    Labour's policies under Corbyn are constantly referred to as extreme or outlandish but they're nothing of the sort, and are the norm in parts of Europe and Scandinavia. Indeed, it's these 'extreme' policies that are galvanising and enthusing so many younger and previously disenfranchised voters. Neo-liberalism is a busted flush, one that the media and the old guard are desperate to keep in play; hence the vilification of Labour from the establishment. However, especially with the increasingly terrifying environmental disaster lurking around the corner, we need Corbyn's Labour more than ever.

  11. #8674
    Is it possible to get a tweet displayed on the forum? I copies a link and sandwiched it in the [tweet] brackets thingy but nothing showed up.

  12. #8675
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Trentham
    Posts
    4,614
    Quote Originally Posted by mr.hobblesworth View Post
    Why didn't we win under Ed then?

    Labour's policies under Corbyn are constantly referred to as extreme or outlandish but they're nothing of the sort, and are the norm in parts of Europe and Scandinavia. Indeed, it's these 'extreme' policies that are galvanising and enthusing so many younger and previously disenfranchised voters. Neo-liberalism is a busted flush, one that the media and the old guard are desperate to keep in play; hence the vilification of Labour from the establishment. However, especially with the increasingly terrifying environmental disaster lurking around the corner, we need Corbyn's Labour more than ever.
    Because he wasn't seen as moderate enough - and like Corbyn lacked leadership qualities.
    David maybe. Burnham may be. But Corbyn doesn't impress me as a PM in waiting.
    I sympathise with many of his policies and like you wish fervently that those most in need were better cared for but I can't see Labour winning an outright victory with JC at the helm.
    Labour stuck with Foot (another man of principle) but got nowhere. Kinnock the same.

    You have to go for the middle ground where most voters are, and elect a leader of charisma, charm, wit and intelligence who is very good at PR.
    Yes, I know it's the policies that count but in this day and age you have to play the game, win power first, and then you can change things.

    The most successful Labour leaders were both in that category. Wilson and Blair.

    The Tories are more ruthless and if they see power ebbing away they ditch their leaders at the drop of a hat. Even Mrs. T, never mind May. But they went through a whole host of lame ducks like IDS and Howard before they settled on Cameron who, for all his smarmy faults, was quite a slick PR operator, particularly at question time.

    My hope is that the Tories implode and split irrevocably but I stand by my opinion that if say Burnham was leader Labour would be miles ahead.

  13. #8676
    Quote Originally Posted by TheSage View Post
    Because he wasn't seen as moderate enough - and like Corbyn lacked leadership qualities.
    David maybe. Burnham may be. But Corbyn doesn't impress me as a PM in waiting.
    I sympathise with many of his policies and like you wish fervently that those most in need were better cared for but I can't see Labour winning an outright victory with JC at the helm.
    Labour stuck with Foot (another man of principle) but got nowhere. Kinnock the same.

    You have to go for the middle ground where most voters are, and elect a leader of charisma, charm, wit and intelligence who is very good at PR.
    Yes, I know it's the policies that count but in this day and age you have to play the game, win power first, and then you can change things.

    The most successful Labour leaders were both in that category. Wilson and Blair.

    The Tories are more ruthless and if they see power ebbing away they ditch their leaders at the drop of a hat. Even Mrs. T, never mind May. But they went through a whole host of lame ducks like IDS and Howard before they settled on Cameron who, for all his smarmy faults, was quite a slick PR operator, particularly at question time.

    My hope is that the Tories implode and split irrevocably but I stand by my opinion that if say Burnham was leader Labour would be miles ahead.
    Sorry, but I think that's a pile of horse ****! You don't have to go for the middle ground. That's where the status quo is, where nothing changes, where loads of centrist politicians sit pulling sad faces as they bring in a load more austerity but feel guilty for it. We need change (and not Chuka's bunch of clowns) and to-and-froing between centrist parties isn't going to change anything. People are sick of it. Far better to have a leader who stands for something (let's just ignore Brexit for the purposes of this) and draw people towards you. It's a battle and we have practically every force fighting against us but it will be worth it. Already the policies Labour are announcing are genuinely exciting and there's no way that Andy Burnham or David ******* Miliband would be doing that. I have never seen such widespread astonishment and positive reaction as the party got for their 2017 manifesto, and if we build on that, we can fundamentally change the country for the better.

  14. Advert Advert



This website is operated by OVF Ltd - all content and images (c) unless specified


This site is a sports website and does contain occasional adverts and features about gambling. If you require help and advice on gambling we recommend these links: Information on protecting young people | Addiction help from gambleaware.co.uk


OVF backs the official Port Vale Supporters Club and Valiants for Diversity. We support the Football Supporters Federation, Show Racism the Red Card and Football vs Homophobia organisations. We donate to the Donna Louise Trust and the Douglas MacMillan Hospice. OVF deplores discrimination and violence.


We use cookies to enhance your experience | Cookie and Privacy policy


Views expressed in the forum are NOT necessarily those of the site owners. We do not read posts in advance but will take swift action to delete offensive posts.
To report a post please click here and follow the instructions