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England v Hungary


Phil

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Just now, WV said:

No surprises this comes from the guy who said season over after we went 1 down at Colchester. Do you think sometimes you might be a little too negative? 
All of the same things were trotted out pre World Cup which we got to the semis in and pre euros which we got to the final in. No other English manager ever has achieved that. Yes the defeats weren’t good to watch but the guy has credit in the bank and it’s only people who over react that are seeing it as anything else. 

Quite sure I wasn’t the only one who said that but keep banging the same drum. 

Yes we got to the semis and final. But when did we play a decent side? As soon as we played a decent side in the World Cup we lost, Euros on home ground we should have been winning that. Southgate somehow seems to have evaded criticism for those penalty decisions at the end as well….

He has some credit in the bank and will be in charge for the World Cup but I don’t see us doing remotely well there. Personally think that some of this credit has been lost after the other night. It wasn’t a 1-0 smash and grab. They battered us, and we were just as poor in Hungary. 

I don’t think it’s just Southgate, the players clearly aren’t interested but he needs to be more attacking against sides like this. The sub towards the end, taking Saka off for McGuire was a prime example. I know we were down to 10 but in what way is that going to improve the situation? 

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3 hours ago, WV said:

This post is so far off the mark. Watch some of those games again. We only won because the other teams were the worst they’ve been for years etc. What is wrong with some England fans? 
 

We have lost a couple of what are essentially friendlies at the back end of a very long season for most of our players. Hungary season finished on 9th may and they played 33 games compared to some of ours playing 50ish and finishing a couple of weeks ago. It is Hungary’s final and their players chance to get spotted on the big stage. Wonder if some of the knicker wetters  for England are the same who wanted flitcroft gone in January and shouted season over in February? 

I will tell you whats wrong, I am a realist. 17 minutes against Germany, 90 against Ukraine, 90 against Sweden (I am being very generous there) were good, the rest has been a horror show. 

Under Southgate we have played top teams (Brazil, Germany, Belgium, France, Spain etc) 17 times. We have won just four.

I am really interested as to what makes you think we will win the World Cup (unless you agree with me that we wont) based on the hopeless performances of the past? 

Will tactics such as having a chance to cross the ball in but instead we go all the way back to the keeper suddenly become unstoppable to play against?

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On 17/06/2022 at 09:11, WV said:

This post is so far off the mark. Watch some of those games again. We only won because the other teams were the worst they’ve been for years etc. What is wrong with some England fans? 
 

We have lost a couple of what are essentially friendlies at the back end of a very long season for most of our players. Hungary season finished on 9th may and they played 33 games compared to some of ours playing 50ish and finishing a couple of weeks ago. It is Hungary’s final and their players chance to get spotted on the big stage. Wonder if some of the knicker wetters  for England are the same who wanted flitcroft gone in January and shouted season over in February? 

I can tell you now, Germany and Italy are bigger games than England for the Hungarians.

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On 17/06/2022 at 08:03, philpvfc said:

Unlike normal managerial positions you need 2 strong attributes to be an England manager.

1) Be able to handle the press, act like a statesman, bring unity to a bunch of pre Madonna’s who would rather be playing for their clubs where all their mates are

2) The normal attributes for a good manager, best team selection, right formation, correct tactics, well planned substitutions.

Southgate is excellent at number 1, but bloody awful at number 2, Division 1 standard at best.

A good example of a complete opposite would be Graham Taylor, great club manager crucified by the press when in the England job.

If we ever get a manager who is excellent at both 1 & 2 we may well win something. Southgate will go after the World Cup and if I’m a beefing man Eddie Howe will be the next England manager.

I just looked at Taylor's 1996 squad. He picked 7 centre backs and 3 keepers. OK I guess 3 keepers is normal, but ....

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Goalkeeper is the main problem. We would have drawn 0-0 against Hungary at Wolves with a world class keeper no matter how bad we were in the outfield. We would have also beaten Germany 1-0. Out of a limited bunch, having seen some great keepers in my time, it has to be Pope between the sticks. 

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19 hours ago, Warren said:

I just looked at Taylor's 1996 squad. He picked 7 centre backs and 3 keepers. OK I guess 3 keepers is normal, but ....

He didn’t do a good job with England but he was never given a chance by the press, one of the best English managers seen in the last 6 decades though at club level.

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19 hours ago, Warren said:

Goalkeeper is the main problem. We would have drawn 0-0 against Hungary at Wolves with a world class keeper no matter how bad we were in the outfield. We would have also beaten Germany 1-0. Out of a limited bunch, having seen some great keepers in my time, it has to be Pope between the sticks. 

I can’t fault Pickford for England. I’ve never seen a world class goalie for England, Banks was before my time.

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On 21/06/2022 at 19:44, philpvfc said:

I can’t fault Pickford for England. I’ve never seen a world class goalie for England, Banks was before my time.

I would put Clemence in that world class bracket and maybe Shilton. Shilton cost us qualification in 1974 and was massively at fault in 1986 for the hand of god goal so maybe not. Hence it's been a while. Pickford was big time at fault v Germany. I know it's tight for me to pick that incident but living locally and seeing Everton fans none think he can't be improved upon in the Everton squad. 

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19 hours ago, Warren said:

I would put Clemence in that world class bracket and maybe Shilton. Shilton cost us qualification in 1974 and was massively at fault in 1986 for the hand of god goal so maybe not. Hence it's been a while. Pickford was big time at fault v Germany. I know it's tight for me to pick that incident but living locally and seeing Everton fans none think he can't be improved upon in the Everton squad. 

For me I think Shilton was <ovf censored> compared to modern keepers and not particularly good back then and Clemence couldn’t get in the team ahead of Shilton so he can’t be good at all. Seaman again was another poor keeper. It’s a position we’ve not been blessed with and that’s why we big up the likes of Shilton and Seaman.

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Having seen Shilton, I think Stoke had a better keeper in Peter Fox. He never went to a very top club and consequently never got a break through. I can't forgive Shilton for the ball under body goal v Poland in 1973 nor not coming professionally for the hand of god goal to the highest point of the cross before the player could reach it. Two gross mistakes. Clemence let in a between the legs trickle to give Scotland a win. Shilton should have not played at the 1990 World Cup at 40. Same mistake made at 2002 World Cup with different keeper. Banks was therefore the last genuine world class goalie England had, and the save from Pele in 1970 is still one of the greatest saves ever made anytime.

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