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Who in their right mind wants to stop in Burslem for the night though? Hanley and Castle are only up the road with much better transport links and facilities, and Premier Inn have hotels in both. There's a reason The George is the only hotel in Burslem, and why it's still going despite being in a shocking state
This mindset is what holds Burslem back. You have to start with things like the hotel, put more bars, resteraunts coffee shops etc in Burslem. There is already new housing so new people moving in. To give Burslem a chance it needs new ideas. If there is a hotel like a premier in there people will stay people scan hotels like this via prices. If its cheaper people will stay. Stoke on Trent is a small area and people will be able to get around from there.

It will help Burslem more than you think. Regeneration needs this.
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9 minutes ago, Valiant in Brum said:

This mindset is what holds Burslem back. You have to start with things like thr hotel, put more bars, resteraunts coffee shops etc in Burslem. There is already new housing so new people moving in. To give Burslem a chance it needs new ideas. If there is a hotel like a premier in there people will stay peolme scan hotels like this via prices. If its cheaper people will stay. Stoke on Trent is a small area and people will be able to get around from there.

It will help Burslem more than you think. Regeneration needs this.

Bars is one thing Burslem isn’t short of.

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3 hours ago, Valiant in Brum said:

This mindset is what holds Burslem back. You have to start with things like the hotel, put more bars, resteraunts coffee shops etc in Burslem. There is already new housing so new people moving in. To give Burslem a chance it needs new ideas. If there is a hotel like a premier in there people will stay people scan hotels like this via prices. If its cheaper people will stay. Stoke on Trent is a small area and people will be able to get around from there.

It will help Burslem more than you think. Regeneration needs this.

It’s not mindset it’s cold hard cash.  You are right about ideas but then you need investment to get those ideas off the ground. If I invest time and money in something I want a return.  If I open a shop it needs to make money.  If I own a hotel I have to fill a certain number of rooms to cover my overheads.  The George has filled its rooms, but, it would appear, predominantly not with the type of guests who are going to spend much money in the town.

I think the change will happen in Burslem due to the new houses being built, but it’ll take time.

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14 hours ago, Guitar Ray said:

 

I think the change will happen in Burslem due to the new houses being built, but it’ll take time.


The problem is, we thought that when Sadlers Park was developed. New houses went up, Burslem became a great night out around 2008-2012 and then it dived. I lived on there from 2008 to 2019, and I witnessed the decline.

It would have declined faster if it wasn't for the housing crash in 2008. The good folk that bought on there from the beginning couldn't sell up so were trapped there for a lot longer than they wanted to. 

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1 hour ago, Rocky said:


The problem is, we thought that when Sadlers Park was developed. New houses went up, Burslem became a great night out around 2008-2012 and then it dived. I lived on there from 2008 to 2019, and I witnessed the decline.

It would have declined faster if it wasn't for the housing crash in 2008. The good folk that bought on there from the beginning couldn't sell up so were trapped there for a lot longer than they wanted to. 

You obviously have more insight than I do.  I still believe that the more people you have living within walking distance of any town centre can only help the local economy.

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17 minutes ago, Guitar Ray said:

You obviously have more insight than I do.  I still believe that the more people you have living within walking distance of any town centre can only help the local economy.

I agree to certain extent but I also think it depends on the kind of people. A problem with Burslem for a number of years is that it is populated by people that are addicts. Burslem has flats designated to people out of work and trying to wean themselves off their addictions and they are  in the town centre throughout the day which over the years has put off people visiting and walking into town.

I do want to follow that up with saying that Burslem is also populated by people that care about their town but feel powerless in how to make it better and solve the problems that it is dealing with. If you're a business and you look at the town now, there is nothing there but takeaways and pubs mostly, if you have a small business that falls outside of those industries you will avoid Burslem, it will take a monumental shift to get it out of the hole it is in now. Tunstall is in a similar state unfortunately.

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Burslem has the most beauitiful architecture in Stoke. It has so much potential and has been neglected. It is a wonderful place. Also as stated there are so many good people in Burslem. Burslem deserves better and should get better.

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4 hours ago, Rocky said:

I agree to certain extent but I also think it depends on the kind of people. A problem with Burslem for a number of years is that it is populated by people that are addicts. Burslem has flats designated to people out of work and trying to wean themselves off their addictions and they are  in the town centre throughout the day which over the years has put off people visiting and walking into town.

I do want to follow that up with saying that Burslem is also populated by people that care about their town but feel powerless in how to make it better and solve the problems that it is dealing with. If you're a business and you look at the town now, there is nothing there but takeaways and pubs mostly, if you have a small business that falls outside of those industries you will avoid Burslem, it will take a monumental shift to get it out of the hole it is in now. Tunstall is in a similar state unfortunately.

Yes, there are wide ranging social issues, and like many town centres in the Potteries, and urban areas beyond, a small number of individuals act to deter the general public from visiting.  Tunstall, Burslem and to a degree Hanley all suffering the same.  All town centres are struggling these days.

I’ve not long since finished watching the Big Build and the Sylvester Community Trust development in Fegg Hayes. Obviously some good people with drive and vision behind that.  Wherever the money has come from, the whole thing wouldn’t have come cheap.  You need people and investment to come together.

In my view there are more good people out there than bad.  The more people living in a town the more likely a few of those will be a force for good.  It could, as you say, take a monumental shift, but that may come as a series of smaller changes, just as we’ve seen in our club.  Who could’ve predicted Carol and Kevin?  It may take time for Burslem to bounce back but it will happen.  Maybe it needs the football club to lead and shine the spotlight, as seems to be happening.

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It's a shame so much infrastructure was demolished or allowed to ruin in the 60s / 70s. The old loop line runs straight past Vale Park. Converted to a tramline it would improve public transport massively between the towns. 

There was talk of reinstating the breached Burslem Branch Canal in Middleport around 2010, walking distance from the town centre. They talked about a museum but I always envisaged a mini Salford Quays. Bars, restaurants, shops, hotel, apartments. Close to a main train line, easy access to a500, m6. The potential is there, if the vision attracted the level of investment needed.

The town centre has some amazing architecture. Utilise them the way Manchester has, and there could be modern amenities in stunning old buildings.

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Posted (edited)

Regeneration is really tough in small cities/large towns. Stoke-on-Trent is held back by a few issues, including awful public transport links but mainly poor educational outcomes. 

The current regeneration model, started in the early 80s by Heseltine in Liverpool and the Docklands, is to encourage private investment in urban areas by 'building stuff'. 'Building stuff' is largely what the council is spending the Levelling Up money on. 

If there is going to be systemic change in Burslem and Stoke-on-Trent, I feel we need to move away from a short-term 'build stuff' approach (although it is important as part of the wider picture) and shift towards a more long-term plan which brings together actors from the community, private sector, and state agencies. Port Vale should be a crucial part of this.

Edited by Joe B
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On 08/06/2022 at 22:49, Guitar Ray said:

It’s not mindset it’s cold hard cash.  You are right about ideas but then you need investment to get those ideas off the ground. If I invest time and money in something I want a return.  If I open a shop it needs to make money.  If I own a hotel I have to fill a certain number of rooms to cover my overheads.  The George has filled its rooms, but, it would appear, predominantly not with the type of guests who are going to spend much money in the town.

I think the change will happen in Burslem due to the new houses being built, but it’ll take time.

The regeneration of a town starts with the council. Make people want to come into town and make it appealing to traders. Charge extortionate rates for a handful of businesses or reduced ones for twice the number. More & varied businesses will make it appealing for shoppers. 

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Regeneration is really tough in small cities/large towns. Stoke-on-Trent is held back by a few issues, including awful public transport links but mainly poor educational outcomes. 
The current regeneration model, started in the early 80s by Heseltine in Liverpool and the Docklands, is to encourage private investment in urban areas by 'building stuff'. 'Building stuff' is largely what the council is spending the Levelling Up money on. 
If there is going to be systemic change in Burslem and Stoke-on-Trent, I feel we need to move away from a short-term 'build stuff' approach (although it is important as part of the wider picture) and shift towards a more long-term plan which brings together actors from the community, private sector, and state agencies. Port Vale should be a crucial part of this.



It also needs to federate out further than Hanley…. The problem with the local council is the Money is going into the Centre regeneration (mostly), I suspect to try and attract external investments, which over the years I suspect they’d hope it would enable it to federate out into the 6 towns…..

Although, unless Vale hit the championship and stay there…. Investment will be slow and small until that point.

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11 hours ago, jeffers said:

The regeneration of a town starts with the council. Make people want to come into town and make it appealing to traders. Charge extortionate rates for a handful of businesses or reduced ones for twice the number. More & varied businesses will make it appealing for shoppers. 

I agree that the council need to be on board for wider regeneration.

As I said earlier individuals can, and do, start things on their own, the recent example being the work of the trust in Fegg Hayes.  In our own case, Carol and Kevin moved their business to Burslem with a vision.

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