Jump to content

  • OVF player sponsorship 2022

    £10 to enter. More details and a link to donate can be found here

The Hamil End


Recommended Posts

27 minutes ago, Family Stand Terrier said:

That only effects a few rows at the back and centre.

True, but they’d be some of the most popular seats. Anyway, not a factor in the Bycars, where you can see the scoreboard without having to do a 180.

22 minutes ago, Family Stand Terrier said:

Can't believe people are actually arguing in favour of the bycars.

Just on the argument of atmosphere alone, there's only one winner.

Look at Newport, 2 to 3k in there, hardly made a noise. Swindon was the best atmosphere at Vale I can remember. 

Before then, whenever the atmosphere has been ok, like Burton 7 - 1, the Bycars just got involved with songs started elsewhere. It won't attract the people that start everything off. It's dead in there.

I’m easy on the Hamil/Bycars and will move if that’s what we decide, but I think some of the stuff people are saying is nonsense, you using the Newport and Swindon games for example.  Did you forget the way the Newport game panned out?  The Swindon game was a one off, the occasion itself is not likely to be repeated any time soon.

Atmosphere, certainly in home games, is one of those things that depends on the way the game pans out.  If we were 2 goals down with 10 men I’m not confident we’d have done what the Stags fans did for 20-25 minutes in that second half at Wembley.

The argument around “atmosphere” should be that any move would bring the singers together in the short term, which inevitably would lead to more noise.  Less about the acoustics.  My feeling is that if you got those same fans in the Bycars it wouldn’t be far off in terms of volume, and that’s speaking from experience of sitting in both ends when full.  At the moment the Bycars is more than half empty with lots of young families.  Hardly conducive to a banging atmosphere.

What people seem to forget is that your average away fan is generally up for it, so to speak, it’s not quite the same for many home fans, a few fans in any away end will tend to make a lot of noise.  You only have to look at our own away games to see that.  Put away fans in the Bycars next season and in a typical home game you’ll hear them, trust me.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Advert:


I’m easy on the Hamil/Bycars and will move if that’s what we decide, but I think some of the stuff people are saying is nonsense, you using the Newport and Swindon games for example.  Did you forget the way the Newport game panned out?  The Swindon game was a one off, the occasion itself is not likely to be repeated any time soon.
Atmosphere, certainly in home games, is one of those things that depends on the way the game pans out.  If we were 2 goals down with 10 men I’m not confident we’d have done what the Stags fans did for 20-25 minutes in that second half at Wembley.
The argument around “atmosphere” should be that any move would bring the singers together in the short term, which inevitably would lead to more noise.  Less about the acoustics.  My feeling is that if you got those same fans in the Bycars it wouldn’t be far off in terms of volume, and that’s speaking from experience of sitting in both ends when full.  At the moment the Bycars is more than half empty with lots of young families.  Hardly conducive to a banging atmosphere.
What people seem to forget is that your average away fan is generally up for it, so to speak, it’s not quite the same for many home fans, a few fans in any away end will tend to make a lot of noise.  You only have to look at our own away games to see that.  Put away fans in the Bycars next season and in a typical home game you’ll hear them, trust me.
Taking everything else out of it the bycars is a dump with no facilities. Away fans should suffer it.
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Rory said:
7 minutes ago, Guitar Ray said:
I’m easy on the Hamil/Bycars and will move if that’s what we decide, but I think some of the stuff people are saying is nonsense, you using the Newport and Swindon games for example.  Did you forget the way the Newport game panned out?  The Swindon game was a one off, the occasion itself is not likely to be repeated any time soon.
Atmosphere, certainly in home games, is one of those things that depends on the way the game pans out.  If we were 2 goals down with 10 men I’m not confident we’d have done what the Stags fans did for 20-25 minutes in that second half at Wembley.
The argument around “atmosphere” should be that any move would bring the singers together in the short term, which inevitably would lead to more noise.  Less about the acoustics.  My feeling is that if you got those same fans in the Bycars it wouldn’t be far off in terms of volume, and that’s speaking from experience of sitting in both ends when full.  At the moment the Bycars is more than half empty with lots of young families.  Hardly conducive to a banging atmosphere.
What people seem to forget is that your average away fan is generally up for it, so to speak, it’s not quite the same for many home fans, a few fans in any away end will tend to make a lot of noise.  You only have to look at our own away games to see that.  Put away fans in the Bycars next season and in a typical home game you’ll hear them, trust me.

Taking everything else out of it the bycars is a dump with no facilities. Away fans should suffer it.

I think I said that way back.  That for me is the only sound argument.  Perhaps with a nod towards the novelty being enough to attract more numbers in there than currently sit in the Bycars, which in turn would lead to more noise being generated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Guitar Ray said:

True, but they’d be some of the most popular seats. Anyway, not a factor in the Bycars, where you can see the scoreboard without having to do a 180.

I’m easy on the Hamil/Bycars and will move if that’s what we decide, but I think some of the stuff people are saying is nonsense, you using the Newport and Swindon games for example.  Did you forget the way the Newport game panned out?  The Swindon game was a one off, the occasion itself is not likely to be repeated any time soon.

Atmosphere, certainly in home games, is one of those things that depends on the way the game pans out.  If we were 2 goals down with 10 men I’m not confident we’d have done what the Stags fans did for 20-25 minutes in that second half at Wembley.

The argument around “atmosphere” should be that any move would bring the singers together in the short term, which inevitably would lead to more noise.  Less about the acoustics.  My feeling is that if you got those same fans in the Bycars it wouldn’t be far off in terms of volume, and that’s speaking from experience of sitting in both ends when full.  At the moment the Bycars is more than half empty with lots of young families.  Hardly conducive to a banging atmosphere.

What people seem to forget is that your average away fan is generally up for it, so to speak, it’s not quite the same for many home fans, a few fans in any away end will tend to make a lot of noise.  You only have to look at our own away games to see that.  Put away fans in the Bycars next season and in a typical home game you’ll hear them, trust me.

Disagree on pretty much all of that. It's who is in there that makes the atmosphere not necessarily the numbers. People tried to revive the Bycars after the target 5k campaign in 08/09. It failed, the bycars just doesn't attract people anymore. The Hamil clearly does.

I used to go in the Bycars in the late 90s so know what atmosphere we can make behind a goal. That's why we need the Hamil. It's been proven that our more vociferous supporters won't use the Bycars, but they would the Hamil. Its a no brainer.

Mansfield fans got behind their team for 20 odd mins in a one off game at Wembley. We'd have done exactly the same. No doubt about that. We've done it before, the Anglo Italian being an example. The place was bouncing even after being so far behind. The occasion brings that support. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, Guitar Ray said:

True, but they’d be some of the most popular seats. Anyway, not a factor in the Bycars, where you can see the scoreboard without having to do a 180.

I suspect we'll be getting replacement scoreboards at some point soon. Place one each in the old family stand corner and the Lorne/Hamil corner then remove the old one and there's no obstructed views and every stand can see a scoreboard.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Advert:


  • robf changed the title to The Hamil End

I know the current owners have inherited it so it's not their fault but I think the current situation is actually really disrespectful to our supporters. I hope they can change it. Absolutely ludicrous really.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Whilst I agree that the atmosphere at Swindon was more a result of the occasion than the stand switch, it definitely helped to have the noisier contingent across two stands to feed off each other.

My view is that the Hamil is a better option for home fans as a) the facilities are miles better and b) you can create a home fan hub from the fanzone to the club shop to Tommy's, and provide somewhere decent for people to go pre-game if they don't want to drink in the pubs in Burslem. Make it an area for families. Get local caterers on board and ramp up the Fanzone-ness of it, maybe even constructing something to provide protection in the winter. Like Norman's double-decker nightclub but less deranged.

You'd also avoid the Hamil bottleneck after tasty games which caused issues after Oldham. Away fans can be corralled, largely, to Dimensions car park and prevented from reaching Burslem for a bit.

I can understand why Bycars regulars may be annoyed, though. It may seem daft, but for some their seat is where their family has watched Vale for generations and there are emotional ties to it, somewhere with memories with loved ones who may not be with them anymore. I certainly wouldn't denigrate anyone who is upset about moving. Football is more than just the game on the pitch which can be consumed in any seat.

I think a big thing the club needs to consider 'atmosphere-building'. VP can be rocking in certain conditions but it's mostly a reactive crowd who need to see exciting football to get going. The music is atrocious and not enough buzz is built around the ground pre-game, partly due to diabolical facilities + too much space. We don't have enough youngsters in who are keen for a bit of rowdiness. Efforts have been made to improve this (fanzone) and success will only help, but it's something we need to kick on with.

Edited by Joe B
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, Guitar Ray said:

True, but they’d be some of the most popular seats. Anyway, not a factor in the Bycars, where you can see the scoreboard without having to do a 180.

I’m easy on the Hamil/Bycars and will move if that’s what we decide, but I think some of the stuff people are saying is nonsense, you using the Newport and Swindon games for example.  Did you forget the way the Newport game panned out?  The Swindon game was a one off, the occasion itself is not likely to be repeated any time soon.

Atmosphere, certainly in home games, is one of those things that depends on the way the game pans out.  If we were 2 goals down with 10 men I’m not confident we’d have done what the Stags fans did for 20-25 minutes in that second half at Wembley.

The argument around “atmosphere” should be that any move would bring the singers together in the short term, which inevitably would lead to more noise.  Less about the acoustics.  My feeling is that if you got those same fans in the Bycars it wouldn’t be far off in terms of volume, and that’s speaking from experience of sitting in both ends when full.  At the moment the Bycars is more than half empty with lots of young families.  Hardly conducive to a banging atmosphere.

What people seem to forget is that your average away fan is generally up for it, so to speak, it’s not quite the same for many home fans, a few fans in any away end will tend to make a lot of noise.  You only have to look at our own away games to see that.  Put away fans in the Bycars next season and in a typical home game you’ll hear them, trust me.

And on the point of atmosphere if 2 down with 10 men, one thing is guaranteed, 2k in the Hamil would make more noise than 5 or 600 in the Bycars would if 3 up v 10 men. The Bycars simply won't attract those numbers anymore, and if it did, like Newport and Bristol Rovers, they'd be silent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Family Stand Terrier said:

Disagree on pretty much all of that. It's who is in there that makes the atmosphere not necessarily the numbers. People tried to revive the Bycars after the target 5k campaign in 08/09. It failed, the bycars just doesn't attract people anymore. The Hamil clearly does.

I used to go in the Bycars in the late 90s so know what atmosphere we can make behind a goal. That's why we need the Hamil. It's been proven that our more vociferous supporters won't use the Bycars, but they would the Hamil. Its a no brainer.

Mansfield fans got behind their team for 20 odd mins in a one off game at Wembley. We'd have done exactly the same. No doubt about that. We've done it before, the Anglo Italian being an example. The place was bouncing even after being so far behind. The occasion brings that support. 

 

I think you’ve ended up echoing what I’ve said.  Novelty, and better facilities, will attract fans in the short term, which is a good thing, but this talk of better acoustics is wide of the mark.  Your 150 v 6000 argument is tosh.

You say the occasion brings the support and that’s what happened v Swindon.  It’s not going to be a regular occurrence.  Put 3k Rams in the Bycars and you’ll hear them.

I was at the Genoa game but have to admit I don’t remember it the way you do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Advert:


10 minutes ago, Guitar Ray said:

I think you’ve ended up echoing what I’ve said.  Novelty, and better facilities, will attract fans in the short term, which is a good thing, but this talk of better acoustics is wide of the mark.  Your 150 v 6000 argument is tosh.

You say the occasion brings the support and that’s what happened v Swindon.  It’s not going to be a regular occurrence.  Put 3k Rams in the Bycars and you’ll hear them.

I was at the Genoa game but have to admit I don’t remember it the way you do.

Best we agree to disagree. Personally I think we have to do something. The atmosphere is poor at the moment. The sound from the Railway doesn't travel well. I also don't recall the bycars even in its heyday creating the kind of atmosphere the Hamil does. That's down to acoustics.

The Genoa game was when we were singing boom boom boom, let me hear you say Vale. The Genoa players were even joining in after the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Family Stand Terrier said:

Best we agree to disagree. Personally I think we have to do something. The atmosphere is poor at the moment. The sound from the Railway doesn't travel well. I also don't recall the bycars even in its heyday creating the kind of atmosphere the Hamil does. That's down to acoustics.

The Genoa game was when we were singing boom boom boom, let me hear you say Vale. The Genoa players were even joining in after the game.

All I would say about noise levels is that you could hardly hear the Swindle fans in the Hamil 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the Hamil is ok but not that amazing, best bit is the convenience of it being effectively at the main entrance. Worst thing about the Hamil is the view at the back can be poor due to the low roof. 

Plus we have all those fences that were put up outside on Police advice that makes fan segregation easier.

The best solution is to get the new Lorne Street end done. I see Swindon are getting a brand new pitch despite staying in league 2 and not having any Wembley money. 
 

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Family Stand Terrier said:

Best we agree to disagree. Personally I think we have to do something. The atmosphere is poor at the moment. The sound from the Railway doesn't travel well. I also don't recall the bycars even in its heyday creating the kind of atmosphere the Hamil does. That's down to acoustics.

The Genoa game was when we were singing boom boom boom, let me hear you say Vale. The Genoa players were even joining in after the game.

Probably because the nature of the tie ensured a good atmosphere. That won’t be happening V Morecambe in February regardless of where fans are. Hamil has a low roof which helps. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Advert:


4 hours ago, TJHValiant said:

Probably because the nature of the tie ensured a good atmosphere. That won’t be happening V Morecambe in February regardless of where fans are. Hamil has a low roof which helps. 

I get the point, but whatever scenario anyone throws out there, the Hamil End wins.

3.5k+ Vale in the Bycars v Swindon, the atmosphere would have been generated from the Railway, not the Bycars, meaning 2k Swindon would have outsung us.

Morecambe at home in Feb, if we had a thousand season ticket holders in the Hamil, they'd create more of an atmosphere in there than if things stayed as they are.

Marketed the right way, cheaper tickets to encourage more in there, fan zone etc outside, Tommy Cheadles right there, it would all improve the match day experience for those that want to go for the atmosphere just as much as the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, TJHValiant said:

Probably because the nature of the tie ensured a good atmosphere. That won’t be happening V Morecambe in February regardless of where fans are. Hamil has a low roof which helps. 

That’s exactly my point.  Moving to the Hamil will undoubtedly have a positive effect, but suggesting it’ll be like the Playoff 2nd leg every match is pushing it to say the least.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Reporting Posts and Ignoring Users

    • Admin don't read everything. Don't assume we'll spot rule breaking. Please report posts and we'll act ASAP. If you're logged in use the orange report post button. If you're not logged in, please - Contact us here
    • If you can't get on with another user you can "ignore" them. Follow the link, type in their username and save - Click here
    • Check with admin if you wish to sell/auction any items. We're happy to support good causes but check first - Contact us here
  • Friends of OVF




×
×
  • Create New...