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The Hamil End


STUNG

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12 minutes ago, Family Stand Terrier said:

Why? Had nothing to do with what stand fans ran on the pitch from. Was there any trouble outside the ground?

The only thing I can think of that could use on that in the first half of extra time someone threw what I presume was a cigarette lighter at McKirdy while he was having a tantrum. Only realised it was something thrown when watching the TV recording back though did see Connor Hall at the time waving to people to say don’t do that. Hardly a reason not to do the switch though.

The pitch invasion was happening regardless of stand.

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3 minutes ago, Guppys left peg said:

The only thing I can think of that could use on that in the first half of extra time someone threw what I presume was a cigarette lighter at McKirdy while he was having a tantrum. Only realised it was something thrown when watching the TV recording back though did see Connor Hall at the time waving to people to say don’t do that. Hardly a reason not to do the switch though.

The pitch invasion was happening regardless of stand.

Maybe, but again you could easily argue that's not a stand related issue. 

Police issues relating to the Hamil revolve completely around crowd movement outside of the ground. In that sense, I'm pretty sure the Swindon match will have been one of the easiest to Police for years.

Over 2,000 away fans had hardly any interaction with home fans. That's simply not possible with away fans in the Hamil End.

What stands fans were in had absolutely no impact on issues v Swindon.

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7 minutes ago, Family Stand Terrier said:

Maybe, but again you could easily argue that's not a stand related issue. 

Police issues relating to the Hamil revolve completely around crowd movement outside of the ground. In that sense, I'm pretty sure the Swindon match will have been one of the easiest to Police for years.

Over 2,000 away fans had hardly any interaction with home fans. That's simply not possible with away fans in the Hamil End.

What stands fans were in had absolutely no impact on issues v Swindon.

Yep completely agree. Obviously it’s been well documented what happened on the pitch at the end but that was nothing to do with the Hamil as such. Outside if there was any major disorder you’d have heard all about it from the Stokienel by now.

As mentioned it is probably far safer for them to have the Bycars. Can designate Dimensions as the permanent away car park and never have the home and away fans meet. Avoids scenes like we saw on Hamil Road when Wolves last came here for one.

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Stung notes that judging by the response from the people who attended the Swindon game ,both regular and occasional fans ,that there would be an increase in season ticket sales if the switch was made . For the handful who dig their heels in can the club invest in a tardis? Extra revenue from extra sales would outweigh the time travel machine . Stung notes that many of the people who took part in my albeit small survey suggest that one of the main reasons they want to move is based around it being far more family friendly , their purchase of season ticket depends on the move, diehards will buy regardless but this floating can market must be tapped into ( like at EVERY other club )

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I’ve said it for years, easier to police, the coaches can be parked at the back of Synetics car park, Tommy Cheadles can open more freely, it helps to stop home and away fans meeting each other along Hamil Road after the game. Just build a bar behind the Bycars for away fans, sorted.

I’d also look to open the old family stand in the corner with a seperate entrance to be used when away support does not look to accede 400 hundred giving us the Bycars as well.

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27 minutes ago, Family Stand Terrier said:

That only effects a few rows at the back and centre.

True, but they’d be some of the most popular seats. Anyway, not a factor in the Bycars, where you can see the scoreboard without having to do a 180.

22 minutes ago, Family Stand Terrier said:

Can't believe people are actually arguing in favour of the bycars.

Just on the argument of atmosphere alone, there's only one winner.

Look at Newport, 2 to 3k in there, hardly made a noise. Swindon was the best atmosphere at Vale I can remember. 

Before then, whenever the atmosphere has been ok, like Burton 7 - 1, the Bycars just got involved with songs started elsewhere. It won't attract the people that start everything off. It's dead in there.

I’m easy on the Hamil/Bycars and will move if that’s what we decide, but I think some of the stuff people are saying is nonsense, you using the Newport and Swindon games for example.  Did you forget the way the Newport game panned out?  The Swindon game was a one off, the occasion itself is not likely to be repeated any time soon.

Atmosphere, certainly in home games, is one of those things that depends on the way the game pans out.  If we were 2 goals down with 10 men I’m not confident we’d have done what the Stags fans did for 20-25 minutes in that second half at Wembley.

The argument around “atmosphere” should be that any move would bring the singers together in the short term, which inevitably would lead to more noise.  Less about the acoustics.  My feeling is that if you got those same fans in the Bycars it wouldn’t be far off in terms of volume, and that’s speaking from experience of sitting in both ends when full.  At the moment the Bycars is more than half empty with lots of young families.  Hardly conducive to a banging atmosphere.

What people seem to forget is that your average away fan is generally up for it, so to speak, it’s not quite the same for many home fans, a few fans in any away end will tend to make a lot of noise.  You only have to look at our own away games to see that.  Put away fans in the Bycars next season and in a typical home game you’ll hear them, trust me.

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I’m easy on the Hamil/Bycars and will move if that’s what we decide, but I think some of the stuff people are saying is nonsense, you using the Newport and Swindon games for example.  Did you forget the way the Newport game panned out?  The Swindon game was a one off, the occasion itself is not likely to be repeated any time soon.
Atmosphere, certainly in home games, is one of those things that depends on the way the game pans out.  If we were 2 goals down with 10 men I’m not confident we’d have done what the Stags fans did for 20-25 minutes in that second half at Wembley.
The argument around “atmosphere” should be that any move would bring the singers together in the short term, which inevitably would lead to more noise.  Less about the acoustics.  My feeling is that if you got those same fans in the Bycars it wouldn’t be far off in terms of volume, and that’s speaking from experience of sitting in both ends when full.  At the moment the Bycars is more than half empty with lots of young families.  Hardly conducive to a banging atmosphere.
What people seem to forget is that your average away fan is generally up for it, so to speak, it’s not quite the same for many home fans, a few fans in any away end will tend to make a lot of noise.  You only have to look at our own away games to see that.  Put away fans in the Bycars next season and in a typical home game you’ll hear them, trust me.
Taking everything else out of it the bycars is a dump with no facilities. Away fans should suffer it.
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4 minutes ago, Rory said:
7 minutes ago, Guitar Ray said:
I’m easy on the Hamil/Bycars and will move if that’s what we decide, but I think some of the stuff people are saying is nonsense, you using the Newport and Swindon games for example.  Did you forget the way the Newport game panned out?  The Swindon game was a one off, the occasion itself is not likely to be repeated any time soon.
Atmosphere, certainly in home games, is one of those things that depends on the way the game pans out.  If we were 2 goals down with 10 men I’m not confident we’d have done what the Stags fans did for 20-25 minutes in that second half at Wembley.
The argument around “atmosphere” should be that any move would bring the singers together in the short term, which inevitably would lead to more noise.  Less about the acoustics.  My feeling is that if you got those same fans in the Bycars it wouldn’t be far off in terms of volume, and that’s speaking from experience of sitting in both ends when full.  At the moment the Bycars is more than half empty with lots of young families.  Hardly conducive to a banging atmosphere.
What people seem to forget is that your average away fan is generally up for it, so to speak, it’s not quite the same for many home fans, a few fans in any away end will tend to make a lot of noise.  You only have to look at our own away games to see that.  Put away fans in the Bycars next season and in a typical home game you’ll hear them, trust me.

Taking everything else out of it the bycars is a dump with no facilities. Away fans should suffer it.

I think I said that way back.  That for me is the only sound argument.  Perhaps with a nod towards the novelty being enough to attract more numbers in there than currently sit in the Bycars, which in turn would lead to more noise being generated.

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22 minutes ago, Guitar Ray said:

True, but they’d be some of the most popular seats. Anyway, not a factor in the Bycars, where you can see the scoreboard without having to do a 180.

I’m easy on the Hamil/Bycars and will move if that’s what we decide, but I think some of the stuff people are saying is nonsense, you using the Newport and Swindon games for example.  Did you forget the way the Newport game panned out?  The Swindon game was a one off, the occasion itself is not likely to be repeated any time soon.

Atmosphere, certainly in home games, is one of those things that depends on the way the game pans out.  If we were 2 goals down with 10 men I’m not confident we’d have done what the Stags fans did for 20-25 minutes in that second half at Wembley.

The argument around “atmosphere” should be that any move would bring the singers together in the short term, which inevitably would lead to more noise.  Less about the acoustics.  My feeling is that if you got those same fans in the Bycars it wouldn’t be far off in terms of volume, and that’s speaking from experience of sitting in both ends when full.  At the moment the Bycars is more than half empty with lots of young families.  Hardly conducive to a banging atmosphere.

What people seem to forget is that your average away fan is generally up for it, so to speak, it’s not quite the same for many home fans, a few fans in any away end will tend to make a lot of noise.  You only have to look at our own away games to see that.  Put away fans in the Bycars next season and in a typical home game you’ll hear them, trust me.

Disagree on pretty much all of that. It's who is in there that makes the atmosphere not necessarily the numbers. People tried to revive the Bycars after the target 5k campaign in 08/09. It failed, the bycars just doesn't attract people anymore. The Hamil clearly does.

I used to go in the Bycars in the late 90s so know what atmosphere we can make behind a goal. That's why we need the Hamil. It's been proven that our more vociferous supporters won't use the Bycars, but they would the Hamil. Its a no brainer.

Mansfield fans got behind their team for 20 odd mins in a one off game at Wembley. We'd have done exactly the same. No doubt about that. We've done it before, the Anglo Italian being an example. The place was bouncing even after being so far behind. The occasion brings that support. 

 

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39 minutes ago, Guitar Ray said:

True, but they’d be some of the most popular seats. Anyway, not a factor in the Bycars, where you can see the scoreboard without having to do a 180.

I suspect we'll be getting replacement scoreboards at some point soon. Place one each in the old family stand corner and the Lorne/Hamil corner then remove the old one and there's no obstructed views and every stand can see a scoreboard.

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  • robf changed the title to The Hamil End

I know the current owners have inherited it so it's not their fault but I think the current situation is actually really disrespectful to our supporters. I hope they can change it. Absolutely ludicrous really.

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Whilst I agree that the atmosphere at Swindon was more a result of the occasion than the stand switch, it definitely helped to have the noisier contingent across two stands to feed off each other.

My view is that the Hamil is a better option for home fans as a) the facilities are miles better and b) you can create a home fan hub from the fanzone to the club shop to Tommy's, and provide somewhere decent for people to go pre-game if they don't want to drink in the pubs in Burslem. Make it an area for families. Get local caterers on board and ramp up the Fanzone-ness of it, maybe even constructing something to provide protection in the winter. Like Norman's double-decker nightclub but less deranged.

You'd also avoid the Hamil bottleneck after tasty games which caused issues after Oldham. Away fans can be corralled, largely, to Dimensions car park and prevented from reaching Burslem for a bit.

I can understand why Bycars regulars may be annoyed, though. It may seem daft, but for some their seat is where their family has watched Vale for generations and there are emotional ties to it, somewhere with memories with loved ones who may not be with them anymore. I certainly wouldn't denigrate anyone who is upset about moving. Football is more than just the game on the pitch which can be consumed in any seat.

I think a big thing the club needs to consider 'atmosphere-building'. VP can be rocking in certain conditions but it's mostly a reactive crowd who need to see exciting football to get going. The music is atrocious and not enough buzz is built around the ground pre-game, partly due to diabolical facilities + too much space. We don't have enough youngsters in who are keen for a bit of rowdiness. Efforts have been made to improve this (fanzone) and success will only help, but it's something we need to kick on with.

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47 minutes ago, Guitar Ray said:

True, but they’d be some of the most popular seats. Anyway, not a factor in the Bycars, where you can see the scoreboard without having to do a 180.

I’m easy on the Hamil/Bycars and will move if that’s what we decide, but I think some of the stuff people are saying is nonsense, you using the Newport and Swindon games for example.  Did you forget the way the Newport game panned out?  The Swindon game was a one off, the occasion itself is not likely to be repeated any time soon.

Atmosphere, certainly in home games, is one of those things that depends on the way the game pans out.  If we were 2 goals down with 10 men I’m not confident we’d have done what the Stags fans did for 20-25 minutes in that second half at Wembley.

The argument around “atmosphere” should be that any move would bring the singers together in the short term, which inevitably would lead to more noise.  Less about the acoustics.  My feeling is that if you got those same fans in the Bycars it wouldn’t be far off in terms of volume, and that’s speaking from experience of sitting in both ends when full.  At the moment the Bycars is more than half empty with lots of young families.  Hardly conducive to a banging atmosphere.

What people seem to forget is that your average away fan is generally up for it, so to speak, it’s not quite the same for many home fans, a few fans in any away end will tend to make a lot of noise.  You only have to look at our own away games to see that.  Put away fans in the Bycars next season and in a typical home game you’ll hear them, trust me.

And on the point of atmosphere if 2 down with 10 men, one thing is guaranteed, 2k in the Hamil would make more noise than 5 or 600 in the Bycars would if 3 up v 10 men. The Bycars simply won't attract those numbers anymore, and if it did, like Newport and Bristol Rovers, they'd be silent.

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