Summer transfer targets/rumours, retained list etc

[SFBT]

So much to consider!

[geoff1]

46 minutes ago, SFBT said:

So much to consider!

yeh, bulls head or noggins, johnnys or duke!!lifes hard.😁

[werstayinup]

So we are all waiting for the next signing to come in BUT how many posts in after its announced will the first moan be 🙂 

[philmpv]

So we are all waiting for the next signing to come in BUT how many posts in after its announced will the first moan be  

Depends whether Wiki's down

[DoiDoiDoi]

Derby just signed Korey Smith from Swansea - a 31yr old midfielder. The average age of their squad must be really high. Will be VERY interesting to see how throwing these players together will work out...

[PV1973]

2 hours ago, Warren said:

I get what you are saying. But overall I think there is only 'now' in football for most players. The career is short and wages matter most.

There is another issue of family background and geographical preferences. Regional, national and international. 

Players and agents can act strategically and Taylor moving to Morecambe is an example of a player who wanted greater assurance about playing consistently in the first team. But what is that judgement? It's a judgement by the player that he isn't confident he can break into the first team at Port Vale. So he is determining his own level won't improve that much by way of coming on as a sub putting in some barnstorming performances and making himself indispensable. He has gone to Morecambe to get a better chance; but is that just a better chance to play at this level and not really a better chance to make progress up the league hierarchy? 

I think there can be a defensive career aspect to this as well. If a player is prepared to accept playing a few games a season, then when the contract ends they are likely to be released. Their CV won't be positive enough maybe to even stay at the level they are at and their market place can become moving downwards. They can find they may need to move down one, two or three tiers to get a regular place. At that level earnings opportunities are greatly reduced unless they end up at a club being bankrolled to reach higher levels.

I think Taylor has moved to play and also to further his career by playing more games and getting some consistency. All with a view for his next move. I think it’s a stepping stone for him. You’re right, moves are based on stats and frankly him sitting here on the bench is going to do him no good at all. It’s a bold move to go and back himself at a club where realistically they’ve probably hit their glass ceiling of achievement. 

 

In an ideal world we probably think he should be staying to fight for a place, I know we are all rose tinted and view ourselves as a good club (which we are) but I can see exactly why he’s gone. 

[PV1973]

15 hours ago, Guppys left peg said:

See Marcus Harness has been sold to Ipswich. Surprised me how well his career has gone since his loan spell at Vale as I never thought he was any better than average. Suppose always have to note that anyone who played for the club at that time was not exactly set up to succeed though.

I think that when we see a player that doesn’t set the world alight they become frozen in time as being rubbish, as if some don’t believe that these players can go on and improve. He’s had good few seasons at this level now with Burton and Portsmouth. 

[Fosse69]

Derby just signed Korey Smith from Swansea - a 31yr old midfielder. The average age of their squad must be really high. Will be VERY interesting to see how throwing these players together will work out...

Instant return to the Championship is their aim, we are getting ready so building players rather than ready made in their case.

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[philmpv]

I think that when we see a player that doesn’t set the world alight they become frozen in time as being rubbish, as if some don’t believe that these players can go on and improve. He’s had good few seasons at this level now with Burton and Portsmouth. 

That's very true. By the same token players who have a good or excellent spell for us can always recapture that form no matter how long ago it was

[Heatwave]

5 hours ago, Warren said:

I think producing a video is good relationship management with the supporters. It further shows the sporting, business and ownership components are in unison and they have plans that appear realistic. In the transfer market it is right to keep silent on individuals until they are certain of arriving or departing. With arriving that is signing the contract. The only reason to vary re departing players may be the objective of influencing the player to stay by promoting a show of fan support on here or preparing the fans for the grief to come. Neither of those hold much water! So it's pure professionalism. 

For me, success this season is to improve team performance to the level where we sit comfortably in upper mid table. Exceptional performance would be improvement to where we are contending for the playoffs.

To be title challengers we need to be able to compete with much bigger supported clubs. That has been done in the past with the likes of Burton and Wycombe being promoted. Those clubs improved their support base as a result and Wycombe in particular has grown. But not enough to be a sustainable Championship side on promotion. Slightly bigger clubs like Rotherham and Peterborough have become yo yo teams.

The Championship is a complex place to survive with nutcase clubs like Stoke City (needing to write off £200 million to stay solvent and within financial fair play even after their relegation compensation payments) mixed with yo yo clubs (Norwich, Fulham, Watford) from the Premier League coming down with compensation payments to assist their promotion again. Then the Championship has a cadre of clubs bigger than Port Vale who have stayed pretty fixed such as Preston. 

For Port Vale to be promoted to the Championship and sustainable at that level it needs to grow support and off field income considerably. The journey has been started with current season ticket sales and investment in the stadium. Long way to go but all I can do is be 100% behind this enterprise and spend money at the club. 

What grew club support for the likes of Derby, Forest and (I hesitate to say) Stoke were long spells in the top flight. While Stoke were in Div 1 during the period 1963 to 1977, the growth years of English football, Vale were shuttling between Div 3 and Div 4. 

While the Premiership is now a rich boys' club, and probably unattainable unless Carol wins the Euromillions, what Vale need is a long spell of relatively successful seasons to grow, particularly if we can match or better our neighbours like we did in the 90s.

[mr.hobblesworth]

Problem is, it's hard to have a long spell of the types of positive seasons that result in growth without having doledrums in the middle. Even Man City fans would probably look at this season as a failure. People saw our Rob Page season as a disappointment. I think people's attitudes have changed nowadays, and wonder how people would have reacted to the Sir John years if they took place today.

[Fosse69]

Problem is, it's hard to have a long spell of the types of positive seasons that result in growth without having doledrums in the middle. Even Man City fans would probably look at this season as a failure. People saw our Rob Page season as a disappointment. I think people's attitudes have changed nowadays, and wonder how people would have reacted to the Sir John years if they took place today.

The nature of football, ups and downs. Most divisions have layers within them as well. Euro dwellers in the Prem, Euro wannabes, middlers, and Yo-Yos. Similar in the Championship with Yo-Yos at both ends. Movement between layers also happens and can be drastic in financial terms. Enjoy the good times when you can. A firm business base and steady growth is our only chance, cup runs can help a lot.

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[The man in the pub]

On 15/07/2022 at 10:52, mbycars said:

Yet we still beat them

I think our first 11 is strong but as last season proved its whats behind them that also counts. As people have said Gibbo and Conlon were absent for large parts of the season and im sure injuries will occur this season, hopefully not to the same extent.

[Warren]

In the end money talks. Without a country backing them Man City would have been what they often were; a club that occasionally won top prizes but mostly anchored in the bottom half of the Premier League and could fall down into the Championship and even League 1. Chelsea tells a similar storyline. Sometimes big long term swaps can occur and the most obvious of those is Everton and Liverpool. Everton were a much bigger club than Liverpool until the 1960's and then, from the late 60's onward, Liverpool became the big club whilst Everton declined in the old stadium at Goodison Park. 

The other way transformation can occur is a great person. Brian Clough at Derby and then Nottingham Forest, Bill Shankly at Liverpool. So I watch Spurs presently, because Conte is a great manager and if he stays around, which he is not known for, he could uplift them into a permanently higher status. PV is currently trying this by backing the manager and the whole sporting infrastructure. Let's hope it works.

[Osh]

4 hours ago, SFBT said:

Something that has been spoken about and needs to be part of the bedrock of progress I think.

Players and agents will be keen to come to Vale.

Agreed. 

 

Vale are no longer a basket-case club