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Vale Park Capacity


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I'm not going to totally re-post what I said pre Bristol Rovers, but while speaking to an official at the ground, it was noted that we could do with another ground,  so I wasn't sure what to read in to that, if anything. 

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1 hour ago, TJHValiant said:

Realistically though if the only source of a stadium revamp is the expectation of Carol digging deep, then I’d rather that was just put in the squad. Luton have championship football with their old ground and I would take that over league 2 in even the fanciest ground we could build. 

Despite my posts in favour of a new stadium, I'd agree with you if that's the only option. That's absolutely fair enough.

However, I am not sure that is the only option. There's lots of clubs who have moved to new grounds without getting themselves massively into debt. 

  • For example at Colchester "£4 million came in the form of grants from the Football Foundation and local government and development agencies"
  • Bristol Rovers at one stage proposed a link-up with the University of West of England for a 21,000 stadium. It fell through due to an issue with the Memorial stadium sale.
  • In the case of Brighton's snazzy new stadium "The freehold is split between the University of Brighton and the Brighton & Hove City Council. The leasehold belongs to the club through its company Community Stadium Limited"
  • Man City's stadium was a "joint venture between Manchester City Council and the football club" with both sides contributing 50%
  • Swansea is a good example of where the new ground actually costs the club virtually nothing as it was built by the council and "was funded by a 355,000 ft retail park on land to the east of the river"
  • Lots of grounds have had either commercial developments (bars, cinemas, offices) included as well as housing which significantly reduces the cost
  • Location can make a huge difference - I'm not saying this would necessarily apply to us but it's reported that the advertising hoarding facing the M6 at the Bescot bring in more revenue to the club than the gate receipts
  • Several clubs have sold their old grounds to bring in funds- sadly I don't think this would work for Vale as the area isn't going to be worth anything if it is riddled with mine shafts and can only be used for sport use

I'm not saying the figures will necessarily add up - I think it may well cost too much regardless of any commercial deals that can be done but I'm just using the above to show that when a club says a stadium costs £xm there can be ways to drive down the amount the club has to put into it. 

I'm also not saying that the club should just go for a new stadium - all I am saying is I think it's wrong to just totally discount it. By all means don't act unless the right opportunity comes along but I don't think the club should back itself into a corner by saying VP is the only option.

For me, VP is the best current option, albeit one requiring a lot of money to bring up to spec, unless something better comes along. That better option may never come along in which case at least we do have a big stadium that the club itself owns. 

 

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If we can get that Lorne street stand open for the start of next season then we could demolish the bycars and get a new stand built there and when that's done demolish the railway and get that done too. The problem with that is though that our capacity would be lower due to the stand being demolished and season ticket holders probably wouldn't be happy being moved to another stand for a season or 2 whilst the work was being carried out. Also it would cost alot to do that work but presume it would be cheaper than moving grounds, would keep us in burslem and give us more modern facilities.

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Some g8 posts for whether we should stay at vale park or move. Personally I feel we need a ground that is smaller and more compact. Whether this is financially viable at the present ground or somewhere new needs some serious number crunching. The question I’d like to throw out is if we were ever to move, where would the best catchment area be. Seeing as we had a ground in Hanley once upon a time !!!!! 

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30 minutes ago, rider1308 said:

Some g8 posts for whether we should stay at vale park or move. Personally I feel we need a ground that is smaller and more compact. Whether this is financially viable at the present ground or somewhere new needs some serious number crunching. The question I’d like to throw out is if we were ever to move, where would the best catchment area be. Seeing as we had a ground in Hanley once upon a time !!!!! 

What about the land behing Bycars end.Near to the training pitches.New stadium could be built there.Then carry on with this one till the new one is ready to move into? That way the club remains in Burslem.

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Problem with new grounds in the same location, or even in selling the current site to raise money to aquire a new one, is that  often means ground sharing while the new one is being built. We don't have any teams that near who would likely agree to that, though I don't suppose that the Shunters are completely out of the question. 

Also, although probably not remotely cost effective, or even practical,  but I wonder if the ground was turned 45 degrees, if it would free up more space for development or even improve the parking logistics?

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Realistically though if the only source of a stadium revamp is the expectation of Carol digging deep, then I’d rather that was just put in the squad. Luton have championship football with their old ground and I would take that over league 2 in even the fanciest ground we could build. 
Luton are moving to a new stadium.


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18 hours ago, robf said:

Despite my posts in favour of a new stadium, I'd agree with you if that's the only option. That's absolutely fair enough.

However, I am not sure that is the only option. There's lots of clubs who have moved to new grounds without getting themselves massively into debt. 

  • For example at Colchester "£4 million came in the form of grants from the Football Foundation and local government and development agencies"
  • Bristol Rovers at one stage proposed a link-up with the University of West of England for a 21,000 stadium. It fell through due to an issue with the Memorial stadium sale.
  • In the case of Brighton's snazzy new stadium "The freehold is split between the University of Brighton and the Brighton & Hove City Council. The leasehold belongs to the club through its company Community Stadium Limited"
  • Man City's stadium was a "joint venture between Manchester City Council and the football club" with both sides contributing 50%
  • Swansea is a good example of where the new ground actually costs the club virtually nothing as it was built by the council and "was funded by a 355,000 ft retail park on land to the east of the river"
  • Lots of grounds have had either commercial developments (bars, cinemas, offices) included as well as housing which significantly reduces the cost
  • Location can make a huge difference - I'm not saying this would necessarily apply to us but it's reported that the advertising hoarding facing the M6 at the Bescot bring in more revenue to the club than the gate receipts
  • Several clubs have sold their old grounds to bring in funds- sadly I don't think this would work for Vale as the area isn't going to be worth anything if it is riddled with mine shafts and can only be used for sport use

I'm not saying the figures will necessarily add up - I think it may well cost too much regardless of any commercial deals that can be done but I'm just using the above to show that when a club says a stadium costs £xm there can be ways to drive down the amount the club has to put into it. 

I'm also not saying that the club should just go for a new stadium - all I am saying is I think it's wrong to just totally discount it. By all means don't act unless the right opportunity comes along but I don't think the club should back itself into a corner by saying VP is the only option.

For me, VP is the best current option, albeit one requiring a lot of money to bring up to spec, unless something better comes along. That better option may never come along in which case at least we do have a big stadium that the club itself owns. 

 

Whatever happens me personally hope we dont move.

If we move we will be like nearly all the other new grounds, no pubs or anything around.

Look at joke they have not moved that far and fans say it is crap. I can not imagine not walking from the pubs in burslem up to vale park it is magic.

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6 minutes ago, Properman said:

If we move we will be like nearly all the other new grounds, no pubs or anything around.

Blimey, glass half-full time... I actually think with the dynamic, fan-focussed owners we have IF we did move they'd ensure it wouldn't be some soulless out of town ground especially as they have said the club needs to be embedded in the community.

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8 minutes ago, robf said:

Blimey, glass half-full time... I actually think with the dynamic, fan-focussed owners we have IF we did move they'd ensure it wouldn't be some soulless out of town ground especially as they have said the club needs to be embedded in the community.

I know rob, but I cant think where we could move to. On the basis that many mine shafts around.

I would gladly move it it was close  ammenaties, just dont thinkm there is anywhere close, suppose I'm used to what I know.

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Don’t see too much wrong with what we have. Away stand perfect for visiting supporters who may fill it once / twice a season. Lorne street needs the concourse finishing then it will double its capacity. Bycars and Railway are badly let down with their toilet and catering facilities, not to mention the seized-up turnstiles. The land behind both can take additional facilities, which I understand may be currently reducing capacity. Family stand can be updated but realise this is an expensive fix. Let’s see where we are in terms of league progress before we start thinking of new grounds.

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2 hours ago, philpvfc said:

Long overdue, worst ground in the country IMO and I don’t think you’ll get many Luton fans saying they wanted to stay in the same area.

I actually played at their ground when they had that god awful artificial pitch - dislocated my knee-cap - ahhhhh the good old days 🤣🤣🤣

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I think a good example of redeveloping an existing stadium is Ashton Gate.

They've so far improved three stands which all have connected concourses (like a big U). The concourses are huge and you can get into the stadium through any entrance by scanning your ticket. Went to a game once with a friend and they have little spaces for bands to play post game (getting people to stay and have a few more beers). 

I think the parallels with vale park are that its also quite residential. If we do it right i would see no reason to move. I think vale park as a more authentic ground is a USP, when you consider our neighbours have done the souless new build next to a dual carrigeway thing. I'd hate that. 

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We really need to see if there’s anyway we can increase capacity for this game, I realise there’s not time to undertake large building projects, but maybe look at opening the old family stand if it’s just a matter of cleaning pigeon crap off the seats and giving the t bar a makeover.

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