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Vale Park Capacity


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50 minutes ago, Guitar Ray said:

What is it that people don’t get?  Carol has said we ain’t moving from Burslem.  Open your eyes and see money is being spent on ground improvements, obviously not quick enough for a lot of the dreamers contributing to this thread.

Considering her business is next door, and her community involvement, I dont think it is one of her priorities. Even if a new ground was in the offing, say 3-4 years away, a considerable amount would still have to be spent to bring Vale Park up to date before then. However I think the club needs to explain the safety situation with the ground since capacity has not been a concern before. 

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16 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:

Considering her business is next door, and her community involvement, I dont think it is one of her priorities. Even if a new ground was in the offing, say 3-4 years away, a considerable amount would still have to be spent to bring Vale Park up to date before then. However I think the club needs to explain the safety situation with the ground since capacity has not been a concern before. 

And tbf, was a concern for the first time on Monday.  Even in league 1, we still have a large away capacity,  so wouldn't be a problem.  

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6 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:

Considering her business is next door, and her community involvement, I dont think it is one of her priorities. Even if a new ground was in the offing, say 3-4 years away, a considerable amount would still have to be spent to bring Vale Park up to date before then. However I think the club needs to explain the safety situation with the ground since capacity has not been a concern before. 

Priorities??? Carol has stated we’re not moving. The priority, apart from the team, is that the ground, facilities, infrastructure are being improved and this will obviously continue.

OK, the safety certificate situation has surprised a few people in terms of numbers allowed into the ground, but the fact is that it’s only been an “issue” a couple of times all season and only because the last game “sold out” has it come to the fore.

I’ll happily bet that in the coming months we’ll see the required improvements in and around the stadium to allow increased numbers to attend.

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Vale Park has plenty of potential, we should everything possible to stay. Once we limit ourselves to a small stadium we will be tinpot forever. Look at Northampton, Shrewsbury, crappy little places, Shrewbury's is in the middle if nowhere.

Although we sold out on Monday, it would be better and not to sell out and dream of 20,000 gates as I have seen quite a few times at Vale since 1987.

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11 hours ago, dishydave said:
12 hours ago, TJHValiant said:
Then the next question is..what factors are considered in regards to safety compliance? 

Here's just a few items. Emergency lighting on separate feed incase the power goes out of which we had none, outside lights, inside lights, cracked or uneven steps & walkways, not enough kiosks & equipment not up to code in the ones we had, not enough toilets & poor facilities in the ones we have, turnstiles condemned or in need of repair, P.A. system, floodlights, advertising boarding the list goes on.. Nothing was done for decades the place had been left to rot for the 20 years before Carol bought it and will take a long time and a lot of money to get it sorted

But surely these all apply to the RW gig when there’ll be 20,000 in the stadium. There’s just no consistency and that just doesn’t make sense to me.

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8 minutes ago, soothsayer said:

But surely these all apply to the RW gig when there’ll be 20,000 in the stadium. There’s just no consistency and that just doesn’t make sense to me.

There will be loads of people on the pitch then, not in the stands, which is much safer apparently. I suspect there will be extra portaloos as well.  

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13 hours ago, dishydave said:

Brentford 17k seats 70 million. Wimbledon 9k seats 30 million build costs

Rotherham’s 12k ground cost 20 million to build. Cheapest ground I have heard of from scratch was Forest Green’s which cost three million and is made from bits of wood. 

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4 hours ago, soothsayer said:

But surely these all apply to the RW gig when there’ll be 20,000 in the stadium. There’s just no consistency and that just doesn’t make sense to me.

Things are being put in place for the RW gig which will be there come the new season at a guess.

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5 hours ago, Jacko51 said:

There will be loads of people on the pitch then, not in the stands, which is much safer apparently. I suspect there will be extra portaloos as well.  

Understood but there won’t be more emergency exits, access improvements or a better PA system by that time.

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15 hours ago, Guitar Ray said:

What is it that people don’t get?  Carol has said we ain’t moving from Burslem.  Open your eyes and see money is being spent on ground improvements, obviously not quick enough for a lot of the dreamers contributing to this thread.

Surely the whole point of a forum @Guitar Ray is to debate topics where there are several different point of views. I have a ton of respect for Carol and a lot of gratitude for what she has done, but it doesn't mean fans can't disagree with her occasionally. 

If I do disagree I make my case as I have on this thread because I want what's best for the club. In my opinion, there could be a brighter, long-term future for the club with a new ground. It may very well not be financially possible and I could very well be wrong but surely on a forum you can have an opposing view from the club's owners. 

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19 minutes ago, soothsayer said:

Understood but there won’t be more emergency exits, access improvements or a better PA system by that time.

I suppose the concert sound system could be used for emergency announcements

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13 hours ago, MelbourneValiant said:

Vale Park has plenty of potential, we should everything possible to stay. Once we limit ourselves to a small stadium we will be tinpot forever. Look at Northampton, Shrewsbury, crappy little places, Shrewbury's is in the middle if nowhere.

Although we sold out on Monday, it would be better and not to sell out and dream of 20,000 gates as I have seen quite a few times at Vale since 1987.

Why does moving to a new stadium limit us to a smaller one? Lots of new builds come with the ability to expand stands in the future if needs be?

I go back to my earlier posts on here. If by "plenty of potential" you mean loads and loads of future costs to bring it up to scratch, I think you're right. 

In my view, there's so much that needs improving at VP - from poor sightlines (due to the stands not being very steep), to pillars in the way, to a 60 year-old RW stand, to the clay pitch, to mineshafts causing issues for future developments - that you could spend millions on the upkeep compared to spending those millions on a better, more modern stadium. 

I don't know if my sums add up or not (it could well be that it's far more expensive to go new than to update VP) but I just think it's not a great plan to dismiss ANY move from VP out of hand. By all means stay at VP if nothing better comes along but it's not even as if the club hasn't moved several times in its history... Who knows what may come in the future - some clubs even have stadiums (with pretty big capacities) partially funded by their local council :wink:

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16 hours ago, dishydave said:

Brentford 17k seats 70 million. Wimbledon 9k seats 30 million build costs

  • Rotherham Utd - 12,000 - £20m
  • Aberdeen - proposed 20,000 - £50m (but that's for a wider development too)

So, it very much depends on where you are in the UK. I think a lot of these developments are part of a wider use of the land (i.e. both Brentford and Wimbledon include residential property) and that's one of the ways of reducing the costs (in that developers will contribute a portion to get the housing contract).

I do appreciate it's a LOT of money and that may be the simple answer to whether a new stadium is the answer but with all the issues at VP I just think it's worth thinking about even if it ultimately turns out to be not possible.

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What is it that people don’t get?  Carol has said we ain’t moving from Burslem.  Open your eyes and see money is being spent on ground improvements, obviously not quick enough for a lot of the dreamers contributing to this thread.


However this could change dependent on the circumstances. It may cost more to rebuild vp than a newer one. The final decision is with Carol. We can only speculate here. No harm on discusion.
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5 hours ago, Gallifreyan Valiant said:

 


However this could change dependent on the circumstances. It may cost more to rebuild vp than a newer one. The final decision is with Carol. We can only speculate here. No harm on discusion.

 

Of course it could change, but that doesn’t alter what Carol said, or what is going on at the club.  It’s an open forum but why let facts get in the way of a good debate aye?

 

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5 hours ago, robf said:

Surely the whole point of a forum @Guitar Ray is to debate topics where there are several different point of views. I have a ton of respect for Carol and a lot of gratitude for what she has done, but it doesn't mean fans can't disagree with her occasionally. 

If I do disagree I make my case as I have on this thread because I want what's best for the club. In my opinion, there could be a brighter, long-term future for the club with a new ground. It may very well not be financially possible and I could very well be wrong but surely on a forum you can have an opposing view from the club's owners. 

All I’ve done is added my twopenneth to the debate, for what it’s worth.  I’m not speaking for, or on behalf of, the owners. 

To spin your idea on its head, why would it be more likely that the future would be “brighter” in a new stadium rather than the current one, refurbished and updated of course?  I’d say it’s based on a dream.  Debate away.

 

 

 

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19 hours ago, MelbourneValiant said:

Vale Park has plenty of potential, we should everything possible to stay. Once we limit ourselves to a small stadium we will be tinpot forever. Look at Northampton, Shrewsbury, crappy little places, Shrewbury's is in the middle if nowhere.

Although we sold out on Monday, it would be better and not to sell out and dream of 20,000 gates as I have seen quite a few times at Vale since 1987.

Northampton’s ground isn’t too bad, one of the better ones in the league. Shrewsbury I agree, the sort of soulless place we’d want to avoid building, but it is one of the cheaper grounds built from scratch. Although both of those “tinpot” examples have enjoyed a better recent history than grand old Vale. 
 

If you want 20k gates at Vale Park again, it seems that will mean a stadium practically rebuilt anyway. 

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