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Vale Park Capacity


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People discuss moving to a new ground, but would it really be worth it in the end? It's unlikely that we'd be able to build one in Burslem and as a result, all the local businesses (that have already been struggling in recent times) would see the final nail in the coffin. Carol has said that she wants Port Vale Football Club to ensure that Burslem is put back on the map and she is doing fantastic work in the community to ensure that this is the case.

 

Recent grounds that have been built for teams at a similar level to Vale include:

- Burton Albion: a soulless stadium which isn't even an all seater with a very poor away end

- Walsall: a stadium with a very poor atmosphere with one of the only pros being it's easy accessibility. Not many pubs or local shops nearby for supporters

- Colchester United: another modern stadium with no character or atmosphere

 

Would it really be worth leaving VP? Issues which many thought were to do with Vale Park itself (e.g. the huge queues to get into the ground which we saw against Rovers) were solved for the Newport game. Carol and Kevin are investing in the ground and although it will take time, we will have a stadium which we can all be proud of. We've already seen huge improvements with the 'completion' of the Lorne Street Stand (which will hopefully be in full use in the near future) and the promise of a new PA system this summer.

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People discuss moving to a new ground, but would it really be worth it in the end? It's unlikely that we'd be able to build one in Burslem and as a result, all the local businesses (that have already been struggling in recent times) would see the final nail in the coffin. Carol has said that she wants Port Vale Football Club to ensure that Burslem is put back on the map and she is doing fantastic work in the community to ensure that this is the case.
 
Recent grounds that have been built for teams at a similar level to Vale include:
- Burton Albion: a soulless stadium which isn't even an all seater with a very poor away end
- Walsall: a stadium with a very poor atmosphere with one of the only pros being it's easy accessibility. Not many pubs or local shops nearby for supporters
- Colchester United: another modern stadium with no character or atmosphere
 
Would it really be worth leaving VP? Issues which many thought were to do with Vale Park itself (e.g. the huge queues to get into the ground which we saw against Rovers) were solved for the Newport game. Carol and Kevin are investing in the ground and although it will take time, we will have a stadium which we can all be proud of. We've already seen huge improvements with the 'completion' of the Lorne Street Stand (which will hopefully be in full use in the near future) and the promise of a new PA system this summer.


You only picked a few there ans Walsall was over 30 years ago so is not a new stadium.

Burton was built when they were non league so not comparble. Rotherham etc is more the level of Vale.


However you are missing the bigger picture it is more than juat ques. It has so much more to do with the standarda of facilities on offer and also tgw cost of redeveloping VP could be a major issue. If you read further back you will see this.
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1 hour ago, FeedThePope9 said:

People discuss moving to a new ground, but would it really be worth it in the end? It's unlikely that we'd be able to build one in Burslem and as a result, all the local businesses (that have already been struggling in recent times) would see the final nail in the coffin. Carol has said that she wants Port Vale Football Club to ensure that Burslem is put back on the map and she is doing fantastic work in the community to ensure that this is the case.

In my view, it's actually entirely the opposite. 

First point - all the other clubs moving to new grounds are doing it because it is worth it. Whether that's Man City moving from Maine Rd or Rotherham moving to the New York stadium they are doing it for multiple financial reasons - to generate more money.

  • there's less maintenance costs due to the new build and up-to-date infrastructure
  • They are often in better locations (e.g. near a RW station or A road) for events such as concerts and conferences (with the exception of the RW concert we'll never get a license to have regular summer concerts and miss out on all that off-season revenue. There were lots of complaints from houses after the 1980 concert so it's never going to be something you can do regularly in such a residential area)
  • They can have better concourses, bars and shops (thus increasing the amount of matchday revenue you bring in)
  • They have better hospitality facilities so you can bring in revenue for the 300-odd days of the year there isn't a first-team game happening
  • You can factor in more modern innovations such as rail seating/standing into a new build
  • Not a financial reason as such but a less open stadium than VP may also generate a better atmosphere too - a brilliant, loud, vibrant new ground may be more appealing to young fans and may just help bring in a new generation of supporters

And you can build a new stadium, like Rotherham, that still exists in the heart of the town or city on a brownfield site. It's not like Stoke-on-Trent doesn't have a lot of those...

Second point - flipping it, with all the infrastructure work is it worth staying at VP?

  • It's £100k just to put a concourse in the LS stand - a stand still not fully open nearly 25 years after work started
  • £500k (I believe that's the amount) for a new PA system
  • Gawd knows how much for turnstile/exits/toilets improvements most of which were originally constructed seventy+ years ago.
  • A new Railway stand (at least) to replace the 60+ year existing one will be needed soon and would cost millions
  • There could also be improvements needed to the Bycars and Hamil stands which are both 30+ years old (the steelwork in the Hamil is older than that coming from the Chester ground)
  • Three of the stands have no hospitality boxes, two stands have very basic refreshment kiosks with no covered concourse. In an ideal world that would be addressed
  • Then there's the work needed on the pitch which is supposedly £500k plus, I suspect it would actually cost much more if it's to be a proper, long-term fix. 
  • Right now, we only have an approved capacity for less than 10,000 home fans. Not great if we are to aim for higher in the league and bigger crowds. Not great for matchday revenues for those potential big games either. 

I appreciate if it moved away from the immediate area it would impact the nearby businesses but the flipside of that is that it would benefit the local businesses and community in the area it moves to.

I know that's not a nice thing but I can't see how the long-term future of the club should be held back simply to appease local businesses. 

I don't think anyone is saying move it miles away anyhow. There's already been a suggested site a few miles away. Yes, that's not Burslem town centre but it's still in the same area of the city, the community can still benefit and in many respects may benefit more if we can provide them with a newer stadium with newer community facilities.

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21 hours ago, Fosse69 said:
22 hours ago, jjvale_03 said:
There may be a million and one issues with Vale Park, but it needs explaining how it differs from other stadiums in the EFL.
The access and facilities in three of the four stands at Crewe are worse than any at Vale. Sutton United is essentially Leek Town. At Harrogate there was two turnstiles and a small gate as an exit for Vale fans spread across two sides of the ground. Luton has already been mentioned. Southend is/was the same story. Apparently Barrow was laughable.
It doesn't make sense or add up. There needs to be transparency between the club and supporters on something as serious as this. It's not great if the perception from fans is that the stadium manager is more interested in creating 'away day playlists' than ensuring we can get fans into the ground.

Sutton and new clubs to the FL have 3 years to bring their grounds upto 5000 capacity, the rules for grounds above 10,000 capacity are more stringent. Vale's current restrictions are probably a matter of priorities since home crowds above 6,000 have been a rarity, away capacity is adequate.

Crewe's capacity is >10k. Ditto Luton.

I would still like to know how/why they are allowed 100% capacity yet we're restricted to 70% (?) in the Bycars and 60% (?) in the Railway. 

If you've sat in the side stand at Crewe or behind the goal at Luton, you'll know the reason cannot be turnstiles, emergency access or facilities. If we're saying that the structures of our stands are unsafe, then surely we wouldn't be allowing any fans in. 

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57 minutes ago, Hoppers said:

Out of curiosity, where is the suggested site (please say Biddulph, please say Biddulph, please say Biddulph🙏😁)

There's a few suggestions earlier in the thread. Land off Reginald Mitchell Way was one of them.

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54 minutes ago, jjvale_03 said:

Crewe's capacity is >10k. Ditto Luton.

I would still like to know how/why they are allowed 100% capacity yet we're restricted to 70% (?) in the Bycars and 60% (?) in the Railway. 

If you've sat in the side stand at Crewe or behind the goal at Luton, you'll know the reason cannot be turnstiles, emergency access or facilities. If we're saying that the structures of our stands are unsafe, then surely we wouldn't be allowing any fans in. 

I struggle with that stand at Crewe, how that passes I have no idea, I can only think it's different licensing authorities, perhaps a question for the Supporters Club ? 

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1 hour ago, robf said:

There's a few suggestions earlier in the thread. Land off Reginald Mitchell Way was one of them.

funnily enough there is a completely flat piece of land opposite the bottom entrance to Bathpool park; the railway runs right past it and iv always thought to myself that would be a great place for a stadium

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Crewe's capacity is >10k. Ditto Luton.
I would still like to know how/why they are allowed 100% capacity yet we're restricted to 70% (?) in the Bycars and 60% (?) in the Railway. 
If you've sat in the side stand at Crewe or behind the goal at Luton, you'll know the reason cannot be turnstiles, emergency access or facilities. If we're saying that the structures of our stands are unsafe, then surely we wouldn't be allowing any fans in. 
I asked the police lady this on Monday and apparently because our safety compliance has been so poor for decades the SAG dictate capacity and the number of stewards needed on a game by game basis.
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1 hour ago, dishydave said:
4 hours ago, jjvale_03 said:
Crewe's capacity is >10k. Ditto Luton.
I would still like to know how/why they are allowed 100% capacity yet we're restricted to 70% (?) in the Bycars and 60% (?) in the Railway. 
If you've sat in the side stand at Crewe or behind the goal at Luton, you'll know the reason cannot be turnstiles, emergency access or facilities. If we're saying that the structures of our stands are unsafe, then surely we wouldn't be allowing any fans in. 

I asked the police lady this on Monday and apparently because our safety compliance has been so poor for decades the SAG dictate capacity and the number of stewards needed on a game by game basis.

Then the next question is..what factors are considered in regards to safety compliance? 

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