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Match Thread: Walsall v Port Vale


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4 hours ago, soothsayer said:

If we got 6pts we’d finish 3rd. I can’t see it though. 

If we got 6 pts , the only team to beat that would be Northampton, if they got 6pts of course. We need Exeter to win or draw on Saturday. If they do , and we beat Newport, that last day will be unimaginable, and definitely only for the strong of heart . UTV 

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4 hours ago, Houston Valiant said:

If we got 6 pts , the only team to beat that would be Northampton, if they got 6pts of course. We need Exeter to win or draw on Saturday. If they do , and we beat Newport, that last day will be unimaginable, and definitely only for the strong of heart . UTV 

If Exeter win tomorrow night they have 83 points !! and are guaranteed second place.

Exeter have to lose all three games for us to be guaranteed automatic

Far better to hope Exeter do lose all three games. This wont happen. Exeter have to beat Northampton. Lose to Barrow first and FGR win midweek. Then " nothing to play for " against us. Bit like Walsall had nothing to play for. Its what we do that matters not what the opposition may feel.

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41 minutes ago, Sandyford_Lion said:

Exeter have to lose all three games for us to be guaranteed automatic

It’s a tall order but if Barrow can get a draw v Exeter on Tuesday, then it’s back in our hands if we can win both - no matter what Exeter do at Northampton.

If Exeter draw with Barrow and lose to Northampton, while we beat Newport and then beat Exeter on the final day, that would put us on the same points as Exeter.

Their GD is 3 better than ours currently but if this scenario occurred then the minimum it would swing back to us would be 4.

Like I said. It’s a tall order.

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8 hours ago, hamilboy said:

It's about time somebody has the same thoughts on Wilson as me he is one of the most hyped up players the vale have ever had.Some say he is a lanquid type of player oh he has played for man u he has scored for man u he is far to good to play in this league we are lucky to have him in at our club <ovf censored>.I will ask one question one stat of his how many times has he stayed on the pitch for 90 minutes in a match.I am pissed off with people home and away keep telling me his first touch is great he is way to good for this league well let me tell you this he is where he is a player according to some who say has no skill is leading him in the goals scored for the club Ben Garrity.If Wilson had the same desire and heart for a battle as Garrity does he would be some player but you carn't teach that it's born inside you and i'm afraid it's not in James Wilson lanquid indeed.

Everyone raves about a bloke who’s got 8 league goals in 39 league games. That’s nearly 1 in 5 for a striker….

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8 hours ago, hamilboy said:

It's about time somebody has the same thoughts on Wilson as me he is one of the most hyped up players the vale have ever had.Some say he is a lanquid type of player oh he has played for man u he has scored for man u he is far to good to play in this league we are lucky to have him in at our club <ovf censored>.I will ask one question one stat of his how many times has he stayed on the pitch for 90 minutes in a match.I am pissed off with people home and away keep telling me his first touch is great he is way to good for this league well let me tell you this he is where he is a player according to some who say has no skill is leading him in the goals scored for the club Ben Garrity.If Wilson had the same desire and heart for a battle as Garrity does he would be some player but you carn't teach that it's born inside you and i'm afraid it's not in James Wilson lanquid indeed.

Thinking subjectively… what, in your mind, are his plus points? He most definitely has them.

His style is languid, but his effort is there. He chases back, And does his running... slating him for his style of running doesn’t seem fair.

We are a better side with him in it.

Does he have off games… yes. Who doesn’t?

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8 hours ago, hamilboy said:

It's about time somebody has the same thoughts on Wilson as me he is one of the most hyped up players the vale have ever had.Some say he is a lanquid type of player oh he has played for man u he has scored for man u he is far to good to play in this league we are lucky to have him in at our club <ovf censored>.I will ask one question one stat of his how many times has he stayed on the pitch for 90 minutes in a match.I am pissed off with people home and away keep telling me his first touch is great he is way to good for this league well let me tell you this he is where he is a player according to some who say has no skill is leading him in the goals scored for the club Ben Garrity.If Wilson had the same desire and heart for a battle as Garrity does he would be some player but you carn't teach that it's born inside you and i'm afraid it's not in James Wilson lanquid indeed.

Wilson is hyped no question but looking at it the other way you can’t honestly say he’s a bad player, anyone with eyes can see he’s technically very gifted.  If Jones scores v Gas we’d still be saying what great set up play from Wilson for example.  As it is that bit of skill is forgotten about.  To compare him to Garrity is just daft, they’re totally different types of players and any team needs a blend.  The bottom line is that at this level you’ll always find faults with any player you care to mention.

The main problems for me is that if we sub Wilson, or Proc, after 60/70 minutes there isn’t a consistently “decent” replacement on the bench, Harratt and Edmonson are just too raw, Amoo not a striker, so that leaves us short in my view for a team that wants to be top 3.  Without wishing to be disrespectful, signing the 2 youngsters hasn’t quite worked as well as we’d hope.

Not a criticism but an afterthought, could the Proc / Wilson partnership be better?  I often feel they’re miles apart.  I also feel I don’t really notice them linking up around the opposition box (enough).  Maybe they don’t need to.  Maybe I can’t see.  Maybe just the way we play.

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51 minutes ago, hamilboy said:

Very explicit answer now explain the stat that i have put out about him without being abusive.

He's been missing for part of the season, and has 11 goals (joint second top scorer) and 3 assists. He picks the ball up deep and links the midfield and attack. When him and proctor weren't available we were utterly hopeless.  

Garrity runs his knackers off and has one assist and the same amount of goals. So while all that effort he puts in is fantastic and harries other players, in tangible terms hes offered less attacking wise in a lot more minutes.

Who cares if the management take him off at 70 mins most week? More often than not he does the business in those 70 mins. 

(I will caveat this by saying i'm taking my stats from transfermrkt here, so if the above isn't 100%accurate I apologies, but the overarching point remains the same.)

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36 minutes ago, Walka003 said:

He's been missing for part of the season, and has 11 goals (joint second top scorer) and 3 assists. He picks the ball up deep and links the midfield and attack. When him and proctor weren't available we were utterly hopeless.  

Garrity runs his knackers off and has one assist and the same amount of goals. So while all that effort he puts in is fantastic and harries other players, in tangible terms hes offered less attacking wise in a lot more minutes.

Who cares if the management take him off at 70 mins most week? More often than not he does the business in those 70 mins. 

(I will caveat this by saying i'm taking my stats from transfermrkt here, so if the above isn't 100%accurate I apologies, but the overarching point remains the same.)

Sorry but utterly hopeless did we not beat Bristol Rvs away without both him and Procter i am not saying he is a bad player i am saying he is over hyped and i expect more from a No 9 in a vale shirt that he produces.You may call me old fashiond but i still think of the No 9 has a talisman of a team.Has for garrity i don't expect him to score 20 goals a season what i do expect that our No 9 is in the box waiting for the ball to come in.

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, hamilboy said:

Sorry but utterly hopeless did we not beat Bristol Rvs away without both him and Procter i am not saying he is a bad player i am saying he is over hyped and i expect more from a No 9 in a vale shirt that he produces.You may call me old fashiond but i still think of the No 9 has a talisman of a team.Has for garrity i don't expect him to score 20 goals a season what i do expect that our No 9 is in the box waiting for the ball to come in.

So because we beat Bristol Rovers without him, we should discredit the multitude of other games in which hes played and we've taken points? We beat 9 men at Bristol Rovers so bit of a strange game to hang your argument on.

In that same period we lost to Newport, Brentford (understandably), Swindon (where he was coming back from fitness and was hooked), Salford(played the last 15), Walsall and Oldham before drawing with Orient and beating Scunny in his first two games back.

Edited by Walka003
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Posted (edited)

Wilson is both a good player and a tad overrated by the Vale fanbase, I feel.

He has moments of absolute quality most games, and has the technical ability to link up things nicely in the final third. We're a better team with him and I'd want him in the team whatever level we're at next season.

However, the inevitability of him being subbed/disappearing at 70 minutes is a pain, as it straitjackets how we can manage the end of games as one player is effectively removed from the equation. His goals and assists return is OK, but nothing spectacular. If his physicality matched his brain, he'd play a lot higher, but that knee injury on loan at Derby seems to have robbed him of any pace over more than 5 yards.

I've said for a while that he's a bit Louis Dodds, in that he's clearly very good but quite inconsistent and tends to flit in and out of games. He can win a game by himself, doing nothing for 69 of his 70 minutes. Dodds tended to get 8-10 goals a season in League 2 and Wilson is looking at similar figures. 

Good player, but one, a bit like Dodds, I feel like we'll be having a tired debate on quite often during his stay. He isn't really a striker at all, much more of a number 10.

As a final note, I agree with a previous poster that we simply don't have the depth in forward areas to challenge/push Wilson and Proctor. Thankfully they've stayed injury free since their layoffs, but I think back to the previous promotion season when we had Pope, Hughes, Dodds, and Williamson as forward options from January onwards. Whilst Harratt won us the Mansfield home game and Edmondson has done the cliched 'job' at RWB, they've not had a great deal of impact.

Edited by Joe B
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Opinions are like arseholes - everyone has one.

In my humble opinion I think Wilson is a class player (s is Proc and Garrity) his touch on the ball, at times, is sublime - the ball he played through to Jones against Rovers was pure class.  I can think of at least a dozen other such passes this season, likewise some of his shots.

He, and others, had a bad day at the office on Saturday.  Am I pissed off at that - yes.  Does that make him crap or over-hyped, no - not in my mind.

There's a lot of people losing their <ovf censored> on here.  Lets see how this plays out, eh, and not write everything off right now.

As as pointed out on the A&V pocast; we had 15 new players at the start of the season and added 8 more in the window, that's 23 players that have never played together.  Yet sssooo many opposition managers have openly stated that we're the best team they've played this season.

I hope and pray we go up in an automatic place; if we dont then we'll be in the play-off's and its a lottery.

If we dont go up then we've got time to strengthen the squad and, next season, probably go up as champions.

 

KTF and UTV

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2 minutes ago, Joe B said:

As a final note, I agree with a previous poster that we simply don't have the depth in forward areas to challenge/push Wilson and Proctor

Agree with this 100%, Wilson and Proctor are L1 strikers, but their replacements are lower L2 players.

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Posted (edited)

There's very few people losing their minds, to be honest.

In a fanbase of circa 5,000 people, with 8-10,000 during good times, you're always going to find people who overreact a bit to defeats. It's simple averages. Humans react differently to things.

The vast majority of the Vale fanbase seem fairly sanguine - obviously very disappointed by the last two games and taking promotion out of our own hands, but hopeful we can still sneak it. If people weren't, I'd be worried. The last two games have been very poor.

The concept that Vale fans are this unique set of overreacting incontinents, however, is one you'll find in every single football fanbase in the world - fans who try to frame everything as good vs fans who frame everything is bad. Just life, innit. Neither are right. You'd hear the same nonsense 50 years ago, just down the pub. The internet has opened up everyone's opinions to everyone else. A good chunk of Vale fans don't use the internet so more 'negative' views will be magnified proportionally.

Vale fans are fairly normal, if a bit weird in how far they're willing to put up with what is a quite miserable existence in supporting Port Vale post-2000. Considering what's happened, I've always found them a fairly resolute and optimistic group.

Edited by Joe B
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11 hours ago, hamilboy said:

It's about time somebody has the same thoughts on Wilson as me he is one of the most hyped up players the vale have ever had.Some say he is a lanquid type of player oh he has played for man u he has scored for man u he is far to good to play in this league we are lucky to have him in at our club <ovf censored>.I will ask one question one stat of his how many times has he stayed on the pitch for 90 minutes in a match.I am pissed off with people home and away keep telling me his first touch is great he is way to good for this league well let me tell you this he is where he is a player according to some who say has no skill is leading him in the goals scored for the club Ben Garrity.If Wilson had the same desire and heart for a battle as Garrity does he would be some player but you carn't teach that it's born inside you and i'm afraid it's not in James Wilson lanquid indeed.

What did you think of Louis Dodds Hamilboy? I have a theory that fans who didn’t get Doddsy don’t rate Wilson.

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