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Russia invade Ukraine


boslemportvale91
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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, tommytunstall said:

No questions as the money was going into Tory coffers 

This isn't really a party political issue. Blair was actively courting Russian money as part of the whole Cool Britannia thing. That's why Abramovich was here. Brown introduced the golden passports in 2008, in an effort to reduce the impact of 2007. Plenty of senior labour politicians have links to these people. It carried on under Osbourne, May and more recently Johnson.

We have become a nation addicted to spending money we don't earn. Whether that is rising personal debt or mainly through voting in politicians who will spend public money we don't have. It isn't a free ride; that money has to come from somewhere. If we import to consume (current account) we must get overseas money in somewhere (capital account). The absolute bottom line is if you are a sane international investor putting money into anything that spends more than it earns isn't good business sense. It does make sense if you want to launder large amounts of cash. We all know this in our hearts. The problem is we still love a good freebie and have for 25 years done our best to avoid looking at uncomfortable truths. Take away the capital flows coming in and the pound will plummet.  We aren't prepared to lose our Potters Fortnight in Spain, so somehow the flow of money needs to continue. That means any politician who wants to stay in power needs to find a way to keep the capital flows rolling in and all of us happy.

No idea what the alternative is but I know we won't like it and we'll vote out any politicians who try it.

Edited by JRC
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6720.jpg?width=1200&height=630&quality=85&auto=format&fit=crop&overlay-align=bottom%2Cleft&overlay-width=100p&overlay-base64=L2ltZy9zdGF0aWMvb3ZlcmxheXMvdGctb3BpbmlvbnMucG5n&s=d25ff1d6a381241741374906177bc993 WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM This isn't really a party political issue. Blair was actively courting Russian money as part of the whole Cool Britannia thing. That's why Abramovich was here. Brown introduced the golden passports in 2008, in an effort to reduce the impact of 2007. Plenty of senior labour politicians have links to these people. It carried on under Osbourne, May and more recently Johnson.
We have become a nation addicted to spending money we don't earn. Whether that is rising personal debt or mainly through voting in politicians who will spend public money we don't have. It isn't a free ride; that money has to come from somewhere. If we import to consume (current account) we must get overseas money in somewhere (capital account). The absolute bottom line is if you are a sane international investor putting money into anything that spends more than it earns isn't good business sense. It does make sense if you want to launder large amounts of cash. We all know this in our hearts. The problem is we still love a good freebie and have for 25 years done our best to avoid looking at uncomfortable truths. Take away the capital flows coming in and the pound will plummet.  We aren't prepared to lose our Potters Fortnight in Spain, so somehow the flow of money needs to continue. That means any politician who wants to stay in power needs to find a way to keep the capital flows rolling in and all of us happy.
No idea what the alternative is but I know we won't like it and we'll vote out any politicians who try it.
The immediate problem is the war and energy supplies. Changing the system will take longer.

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41 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:
3 hours ago, JRC said:
6720.jpg?width=1200&height=630&quality=85&auto=format&fit=crop&overlay-align=bottom%2Cleft&overlay-width=100p&overlay-base64=L2ltZy9zdGF0aWMvb3ZlcmxheXMvdGctb3BpbmlvbnMucG5n&s=d25ff1d6a381241741374906177bc993 WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM This isn't really a party political issue. Blair was actively courting Russian money as part of the whole Cool Britannia thing. That's why Abramovich was here. Brown introduced the golden passports in 2008, in an effort to reduce the impact of 2007. Plenty of senior labour politicians have links to these people. It carried on under Osbourne, May and more recently Johnson.
We have become a nation addicted to spending money we don't earn. Whether that is rising personal debt or mainly through voting in politicians who will spend public money we don't have. It isn't a free ride; that money has to come from somewhere. If we import to consume (current account) we must get overseas money in somewhere (capital account). The absolute bottom line is if you are a sane international investor putting money into anything that spends more than it earns isn't good business sense. It does make sense if you want to launder large amounts of cash. We all know this in our hearts. The problem is we still love a good freebie and have for 25 years done our best to avoid looking at uncomfortable truths. Take away the capital flows coming in and the pound will plummet.  We aren't prepared to lose our Potters Fortnight in Spain, so somehow the flow of money needs to continue. That means any politician who wants to stay in power needs to find a way to keep the capital flows rolling in and all of us happy.
No idea what the alternative is but I know we won't like it and we'll vote out any politicians who try it.

The immediate problem is the war and energy supplies. Changing the system will take longer.

Changing the system will happen very quickly and we won't control it. When we are unable to attract sufficient cash inflows to cover the defit on the current account the pound will fall very quickly. The wise question is when will it happen and what the consequences will be. If you knew the answer to that you could become a very rich person.

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15 minutes ago, JRC said:

Changing the system will happen very quickly and we won't control it. When we are unable to attract sufficient cash inflows to cover the defit on the current account the pound will fall very quickly. The wise question is when will it happen and what the consequences will be. If you knew the answer to that you could become a very rich person.

Maybe so, but open a thread in the Political area if you want a long discussion on the political system.

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15 hours ago, Fosse69 said:

That still leaves 12 years of possible funding which is the period under scrutiny, and where all investigations seem to disappear, and also covers the Brexit period.

We wouldn't be talking about this if Blair hadn't allowed it to happen on his watch?

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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, Fosse69 said:

Maybe so, but open a thread in the Political area if you want a long discussion on the political system.

It's got nothing to do with politics and everything to do with sanctions. For example the UK isn't in the top 10 for countries where Russians buy property. Germany and Spain are, the money they make from selling both oil and gas gets used to buy prime real estate. US sanctions on Russia look impressive but they've actually done relatively little to stop investment flows into property and private equity funds. It's relatively easy to stop importing Russia oil if you are a net exporter of oil. There are some problems with getting the right blend of crude into your refinery as not all crude has the same chemical makeup. Its a completely different problem if large parts of your financial sector are awash and propped up with Russian money and yet for sanctions to be effective it needs to be removed. 

 

 

Edited by JRC

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Are there any countries that have actually sent military support to help the Ukrainians?

All I've seen for the last few weeks is meaningless soundbites being thrown around.

"We stand with Ukraine".

From what I've seen, no one is standing with Ukraine.

People are just watching events unfold like they're watching a Netflix show. In the real world, people are dying.

Putting blue and yellow colours on buildings, and posting hashtags won't stop Russian bullets.

Why is no one helping?

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It's got nothing to do with politics and everything to do with sanctions. For example the UK isn't in the top 10 for countries where Russians buy property. Germany and Spain are, the money they make from selling both oil and gas gets used to buy prime real estate. US sanctions on Russia look impressive but they've actually done relatively little to stop investment flows into property and private equity funds. It's relatively easy to stop importing Russia oil if you are a net exporter of oil. There are some problems with getting the right blend of crude into your refinery as not all crude has the same chemical makeup. Its a completely different problem if large parts of your financial sector are awash and propped up with Russian money and yet for sanctions to be effective it needs to be removed. 
sec.jpg?itok=TTe1JloX WWW.GMFUS.ORG 220225-nyc-plaza-hotel-reflection-2019-ac-1034p-6a562e.jpg WWW.NBCNEWS.COM  
 
Of course it is politics, oil has been the basis of war in the Middle East for the last 100 years, and one of the biggest economic factors in the world with the oil cartel.

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49 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:
3 hours ago, JRC said:
It's got nothing to do with politics and everything to do with sanctions. For example the UK isn't in the top 10 for countries where Russians buy property. Germany and Spain are, the money they make from selling both oil and gas gets used to buy prime real estate. US sanctions on Russia look impressive but they've actually done relatively little to stop investment flows into property and private equity funds. It's relatively easy to stop importing Russia oil if you are a net exporter of oil. There are some problems with getting the right blend of crude into your refinery as not all crude has the same chemical makeup. Its a completely different problem if large parts of your financial sector are awash and propped up with Russian money and yet for sanctions to be effective it needs to be removed. 
sec.jpg?itok=TTe1JloX WWW.GMFUS.ORG 220225-nyc-plaza-hotel-reflection-2019-ac-1034p-6a562e.jpg WWW.NBCNEWS.COM  
 

Of course it is politics, oil has been the basis of war in the Middle East for the last 100 years, and one of the biggest economic factors in the world with the oil cartel.

It's an energy and wheat war this time?

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2 hours ago, valeparklife said:

Are there any countries that have actually sent military support to help the Ukrainians?

All I've seen for the last few weeks is meaningless soundbites being thrown around.

"We stand with Ukraine".

From what I've seen, no one is standing with Ukraine.

People are just watching events unfold like they're watching a Netflix show. In the real world, people are dying.

Putting blue and yellow colours on buildings, and posting hashtags won't stop Russian bullets.

Why is no one helping?

Help is being given.  Britain helped directly with pre-war training for the Ukrainian military and we, along with most EU countries have sent aid and/or military equipment to help Ukraine.  A lot is being done to help although I do share some of your frustration that it doesn't always appear that way.

The NATO (and the US, EU & UK for that matter) stance is that we can legitimately supply arms and aid for defensive & humanitarian purposes, but they (I think quite understandably) cannot be seen to be the aggressor by, for instance, enacting a no-fly zone that would inevitably entail air combat with Russian planes.  None of this assauges my frustration at our inadequacies and my fears for the Ukrainian people, nor my anger at Putin's despicable actions in prosecuting this needless war and the atrocities & war crimes that he is allowing to happen in in his twisted, illogical re-writing of Russian/Ukranian history.

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21 hours ago, Bycarsbill said:

Help is being given.  Britain helped directly with pre-war training for the Ukrainian military and we, along with most EU countries have sent aid and/or military equipment to help Ukraine.  A lot is being done to help although I do share some of your frustration that it doesn't always appear that way.

The NATO (and the US, EU & UK for that matter) stance is that we can legitimately supply arms and aid for defensive & humanitarian purposes, but they (I think quite understandably) cannot be seen to be the aggressor by, for instance, enacting a no-fly zone that would inevitably entail air combat with Russian planes.  None of this assauges my frustration at our inadequacies and my fears for the Ukrainian people, nor my anger at Putin's despicable actions in prosecuting this needless war and the atrocities & war crimes that he is allowing to happen in in his twisted, illogical re-writing of Russian/Ukranian history.

Thanks for the explanation.

So as Ukraine aren't in NATO, no one is actually able to send troops over to support, as this will be a declaration of war towards Russia?

From what I understand, Ukraine have asked to join NATO a number of times - why would their request have been rejected? 

Just feels like the Ukrainian people have been left to fend for themselves. It's incredibly saddening.

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2 minutes ago, valeparklife said:

Thanks for the explanation.

So as Ukraine aren't in NATO, no one is actually able to send troops over to support, as this will be a declaration of war towards Russia?

From what I understand, Ukraine have asked to join NATO a number of times - why would their request have been rejected? 

Just feels like the Ukrainian people have been left to fend for themselves. It's incredibly saddening.

It is incredibly sad mate but if we send troops in there is a strong chance he will turn it into a world war or nuclear which if he is prepared to target hospitals and maternity wards he is capable of anything then so many more will die 

I personally think he will go chemical in the battle for the capital and we will have no choice but to go in we certainly can’t let him win 

Lets hope someone kills the <ovf censored> 

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