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Russia invade Ukraine


boslemportvale91

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2 hours ago, valeparklife said:

Are there any countries that have actually sent military support to help the Ukrainians?

All I've seen for the last few weeks is meaningless soundbites being thrown around.

"We stand with Ukraine".

From what I've seen, no one is standing with Ukraine.

People are just watching events unfold like they're watching a Netflix show. In the real world, people are dying.

Putting blue and yellow colours on buildings, and posting hashtags won't stop Russian bullets.

Why is no one helping?

Help is being given.  Britain helped directly with pre-war training for the Ukrainian military and we, along with most EU countries have sent aid and/or military equipment to help Ukraine.  A lot is being done to help although I do share some of your frustration that it doesn't always appear that way.

The NATO (and the US, EU & UK for that matter) stance is that we can legitimately supply arms and aid for defensive & humanitarian purposes, but they (I think quite understandably) cannot be seen to be the aggressor by, for instance, enacting a no-fly zone that would inevitably entail air combat with Russian planes.  None of this assauges my frustration at our inadequacies and my fears for the Ukrainian people, nor my anger at Putin's despicable actions in prosecuting this needless war and the atrocities & war crimes that he is allowing to happen in in his twisted, illogical re-writing of Russian/Ukranian history.

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21 hours ago, Bycarsbill said:

Help is being given.  Britain helped directly with pre-war training for the Ukrainian military and we, along with most EU countries have sent aid and/or military equipment to help Ukraine.  A lot is being done to help although I do share some of your frustration that it doesn't always appear that way.

The NATO (and the US, EU & UK for that matter) stance is that we can legitimately supply arms and aid for defensive & humanitarian purposes, but they (I think quite understandably) cannot be seen to be the aggressor by, for instance, enacting a no-fly zone that would inevitably entail air combat with Russian planes.  None of this assauges my frustration at our inadequacies and my fears for the Ukrainian people, nor my anger at Putin's despicable actions in prosecuting this needless war and the atrocities & war crimes that he is allowing to happen in in his twisted, illogical re-writing of Russian/Ukranian history.

Thanks for the explanation.

So as Ukraine aren't in NATO, no one is actually able to send troops over to support, as this will be a declaration of war towards Russia?

From what I understand, Ukraine have asked to join NATO a number of times - why would their request have been rejected? 

Just feels like the Ukrainian people have been left to fend for themselves. It's incredibly saddening.

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2 minutes ago, valeparklife said:

Thanks for the explanation.

So as Ukraine aren't in NATO, no one is actually able to send troops over to support, as this will be a declaration of war towards Russia?

From what I understand, Ukraine have asked to join NATO a number of times - why would their request have been rejected? 

Just feels like the Ukrainian people have been left to fend for themselves. It's incredibly saddening.

It is incredibly sad mate but if we send troops in there is a strong chance he will turn it into a world war or nuclear which if he is prepared to target hospitals and maternity wards he is capable of anything then so many more will die 

I personally think he will go chemical in the battle for the capital and we will have no choice but to go in we certainly can’t let him win 

Lets hope someone kills the <ovf censored> 

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47 minutes ago, valeparklife said:

Thanks for the explanation.

So as Ukraine aren't in NATO, no one is actually able to send troops over to support, as this will be a declaration of war towards Russia?

From what I understand, Ukraine have asked to join NATO a number of times - why would their request have been rejected? 

Just feels like the Ukrainian people have been left to fend for themselves. It's incredibly saddening.

It is an incredibly sad and difficult situation, but it's also very much a tightrope to walk for the western alliance to avoid stumbling into a much wider conflict and a possible WWIII with the even more frightening prospect of a nuclear conflagration!

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55 minutes ago, philpvfc said:

One thing has been shown….the Russian military is not that powerful and well trained. 

 I think Putin sent in the youngsters, expecting a easy job more of a training exercise. But as with previous campaigns completely ruthless and destroying everything in his path.  Russians in the past have depended on sheer numbers, their rulers had plenty to use. 

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3 hours ago, valeparklife said:

Just feels like the Ukrainian people have been left to fend for themselves.

The west is doing as much as it reasonably can without openly fighting a proxy war.

Billions of pounds worth of arms, kit, drones has already been sent and will continue to be sent.

The Ukrainian MOD are getting second by second intel updates from the signals intelligence assets that have been flying 24/7 sorties in Poland and Romania for the last several months as the build up continued on the border. You can guarantee American drones are, stealthily, around too. There’s a reason Russian forces and manoeuvres have been unexpectedly sucker punched several times by the Ukrainians already knowing exactly what the big picture looks like - it’s because they’re enjoying unfiltered access to spy satellites and SIGINT early warning radar aircraft. There’s a reason several Russian generals and senior commanders have been KIA in just the first two weeks, that is otherwise unprecedented…

Google ‘NLAW’ and ‘Bayraktar.’ Ukrainian forces are seeing incredible successes from British/Swedish anti tank missiles, and Turkish drones. More are being donated all the time. Russia has, by photo verification, lost over 1100 pieces of equipment in just two weeks. Tanks, APCs, SAM systems. That is an incredible number. A lot of it has literally just been abandoned, but a lot has been destroyed by Javelin or NLAW anti tank systems. 

There’s a lot of money flowing in too which is useful not just to keep the state running but also because Ukraine is offering a huge amount of cash, and a visa in the Baltic states, to Russian soldiers who surrender, and even more money if they handover their military hardware. Many have done so (surrendered or abandoned their kit and gone AWOL) already. 

 

 

 

 

 

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50 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:

 I think Putin sent in the youngsters, expecting a easy job more of a training exercise. But as with previous campaigns completely ruthless and destroying everything in his path.  Russians in the past have depended on sheer numbers, their rulers had plenty to use. 

They have less than 200,000 service men than the U.K. and we are a lot better trained. 

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41 minutes ago, philpvfc said:

They have less than 200,000 service men than the U.K. and we are a lot better trained. 

Who does, Russia? Or Ukraine? Both have more service men than we do from what I’ve read. 

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2 hours ago, WV said:

Who does, Russia? Or Ukraine? Both have more service men than we do from what I’ve read. 

Yes, both do. I was on about Russia but I think I was wrong after checking, there’s so many different reporting in the press and tv. Sky tv reported there was 900,000 Russian servicemen and 600,000 Ukraine service men. According to statista it’s 850k and 200k. I did read somewhere else that we had 700k, that too is wrong, it’s closer to 200k.

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On 07/03/2022 at 21:13, Paul6754 said:

It's starting to come out that Russia has been covertly funding US  and European anti-fossil fuel groups for years and with hindsight preparing for the Ukraine invasion for years.

Great job Brandon......you p*ll*ck.

https://thehill.com/opinion/energy-environment/596304-investigate-russias-covert-funding-of-us-anti-fossil-fuel-groups

https://thefederalist.com/2022/03/01/stop-letting-environmental-groups-funded-by-russia-dictate-americas-energy-policy/

 

I see that VP Harris had another laughing fit in Warsaw when asked about America taking in Ukranian refugees?

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On 13/03/2022 at 07:47, valeparklife said:

Thanks for the explanation.

So as Ukraine aren't in NATO, no one is actually able to send troops over to support, as this will be a declaration of war towards Russia?

From what I understand, Ukraine have asked to join NATO a number of times - why would their request have been rejected? 

Just feels like the Ukrainian people have been left to fend for themselves. It's incredibly saddening.

Ukraine hasn't actually been "rejected" as you put it.  There has been dialogue about possibly joining NATO at some point in the future but, as far as I am aware, no specific negotiations to be rejected on.

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1 hour ago, Bycarsbill said:

Ukraine hasn't actually been "rejected" as you put it.  There has been dialogue about possibly joining NATO at some point in the future but, as far as I am aware, no specific negotiations to be rejected on.

In Major`s time he signed an International agreement that Ukraine would not have Nuclear weapons and would be considered a Neutral country, and like a lot of things it was left to evolve.  Considered by Russia to being part of their historical Empire so another reason not to push things. What would have been the benefit to NATO for them to join?  Putin has been nibbling away at Ukraine for a few years now, why has he suddenly invaded the lot with a scorched earth policy? 

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3 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:

In Major`s time he signed an International agreement that Ukraine would not have Nuclear weapons and would be considered a Neutral country, and like a lot of things it was left to evolve.  Considered by Russia to being part of their historical Empire so another reason not to push things. What would have been the benefit to NATO for them to join?  Putin has been nibbling away at Ukraine for a few years now, why has he suddenly invaded the lot with a scorched earth policy? 

In fact it even pre-dates John Major.  At the time of the break-up of the old USSR (1989/90) part of the deal was that Ukraine to gain its neutral independence would give up the nuclear facilities that had previously been held on what eventually became Ukrainian territory.  However, as I understand it, this was never part of a formal agreement, but more a 'gentleman's agreeement' is one of the many reasons Putin is so against Ukraine becoming more 'westernised' by joining NATO and/or the EU.  Also, as you say, Putin has "been nibbling away at Ukraine" all the time he's been in power.  Although "nibbling" may well be a large understatement as he annexed Crimea in 2014 and has been supplying arms to insurgent fighting groups in the Donbas region of south eastern Ukraine for years!

This is a man who acts like a Tsar and is hell-bent on re-writing Soviet history as he sees it.  Incredibly, the majority of Russians (mainly the middle-aged and older citizens) appear to see things the way that Putin does and sadly, however much talk there is of a putsch.  Sadly, personally I don't think this is likely to happen any time soon nor, possibly, if ever.

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