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Match Thread: Rochdale v Port Vale


Fosse69

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7 hours ago, Wrex said:

I think Covolan is just another case of a player being seen as a world beater once he is not playing. If he remains sidelined until the end of the season that would be fine with me

Agreed. His kicking and ball distribution were not great either. His strength was he was good at saves. However his temperament and ability to handle pressure was not good enough. 
 

He wasn’t a bad keeper, far from it but he deserved to be dropped. 
 

Holy is the sort of solid shot stopper who will get games at league 1 and 2 level because he seems solid.

In fact, Holy, with more than 150 games at league 1 level or above, he has played more games at these higher levels than any other player in our squad. 
 

He would not have achieved that being poor. 
 

 

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1 hour ago, Iron Curtain said:

You were the one that said we had to consider goals for and goals against when considering the vital importance of a goal scorer.

I just quoted the GD numbers 

Also… The scenarios you lay around winning 1-0 vs losing 4-3 would be an argument against getting a goal scorer and for building a well drilled hard to break down team.

Don’t get me wrong, I agree it would be nice to have one… but both arguments you have made so far seem to agree that you don’t NEED one.

Goals for - we dont score enough and Goals against we always seem to have a mistake in us and do conceed goals. Goal difference doesnt always  tell the whole story

I said that we dont kill teams off with a second / third goal. Add to that we are not the best defensively and do often concede goals.

We need more goals.

i said with our squad of midfield players there are not enough goals in them.

We rely too heavily on the front two and to be successful the front two would need to score 30 goals between them

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19 minutes ago, Sandyford_Lion said:

Goals for - we dont score enough and Goals against we always seem to have a mistake in us and do conceed goals. Goal difference doesnt always  tell the whole story

I said that we dont kill teams off with a second / third goal. Add to that we are not the best defensively and do often concede goals.

We need more goals.

i said with our squad of midfield players there are not enough goals in them.

We rely too heavily on the front two and to be successful the front two would need to score 30 goals between them

Only 7 teams have scored more than us 

Only 5 teams have conceded less than us

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24 minutes ago, Packmoor_vale said:

Wow 

Why even comment 

It's a project. Give it ten years.  Let's see where we are then.  Ten plus years of mis management aren't changed around over night.  This season looks like it may be headed for disappointment.  Hope not. Not sure what the problem is with that opinion. 

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25 minutes ago, Iron Curtain said:

Only 7 teams have scored more than us 

Only 5 teams have conceded less than us

The majority of those goals were scores in a 2 month spell when we were playing well and not playing negatively.  Since January, we have played 9 league games and scored 8 goals, not sure how many teams have scored less in that time.  The worry for me is that we are not creating much at all from open play, if we were missing loads of chances, I would think we might get back on track and challenge but I don't see it.  Until the last 10 minutes last night what other chances did we create, Saturday 2 chances in the game, Northampton next to none.  Something has got to change, for me it would be changing the formation on Saturday although I know it won't happen.

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8 hours ago, robf said:

I'm not entirely convinced about the "Holy to blame" angle. To me, it looks like a great finish, right in the corner. It would have taken a world class save to stop it - to me, there's no shame in that beating you as a keeper. 

I also do think that players out of the team suddenly get their reputation enhanced for some reason. Much as Lucas Covolan seems a nice guy, he's arguably lost us two games through dismissals. That's far more worrying to me than Holy not pulling off a couple of world class saves when the opposition score. 

I'd rather have a steady but not spectacular performance (i.e. Holy) then the odd spectacular moment and quite a lot of chaos (Covolan). I'm sure the Vale defenders will think the same too. In the games I've seen, Holy particularly impressed with his aerial ability in and around the box, plucking the ball out of the air - something that Covolan sometimes fluffed. 

I'm perhaps being harsh on Lucas as he did have good spells as well - but I do think the key attribute a keeper needs to bring is that the defence can trust him and with Cov's erratic performances, I don't think the Vale defence could ever be 100% sure of what he would do next. 

 

Agree with this Rob… for anyone claiming Cov would have saved that shot last night, maybe go back and look at the Walsall goal. It’s very similar! 

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37 minutes ago, toyahw said:

It's a project. Give it ten years.  Let's see where we are then.  Ten plus years of mis management aren't changed around over night.  This season looks like it may be headed for disappointment.  Hope not. Not sure what the problem is with that opinion. 

Ten years to get out of this poxy division…. No thanks, losing interest in this season already. 9 more seasons like this and I’ll be watching sky premier league football on a Saturday afternoon and that bores me with just the thought.

2 seasons ago we finished 8th with Askey, anything below 7th this season is a massive failure and I seriously ask is DC the right man to take us forward and will definitely not give him 10 seasons!

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Personally I think all three keepers come in the adequate category, not great not crap.  Cov probably shades it, if you ignore the occasional brain farts. Not sure what the point of freezing him out is. If that is the case. Not sure what the point of having a loanee keeper is when you have two adequate keepers on the books.

Stick Cov back in on a final warning to cut out rushes of blood to the head. That's what I'd do. He's decent, under contract for another season. Just needs to cut out doing dumb stuff now and again.  

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16 minutes ago, Sandyford_Lion said:

Its not good enough

Look at the league table

Sigh…. Ok I just looked again… the teams in 2nd and 3rd don’t have a consistently scoring goal scorer.

Thats my point, you are arguing my point for me again. 

For the 10th time… I would LOVE a mega goal scorer, they are ace and we would be in a better position if we have one.

But the facts are, proven this year and last… you don’t HAVE to have one.

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2 hours ago, Iron Curtain said:

Sigh…. Ok I just looked again… the teams in 2nd and 3rd don’t have a consistently scoring goal scorer.

Thats my point, you are arguing my point for me again. 

For the 10th time… I would LOVE a mega goal scorer, they are ace and we would be in a better position if we have one.

But the facts are, proven this year and last… you don’t HAVE to have one.

Both have signed one though. Labala for Northampton and Hemmings from Tranmere. Agree it’s not needed though and I think Proctor could easily get 15/20 if fit all season. 

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8 hours ago, philpvfc said:

Ten years to get out of this poxy division…. No thanks, losing interest in this season already. 9 more seasons like this and I’ll be watching sky premier league football on a Saturday afternoon and that bores me with just the thought.

2 seasons ago we finished 8th with Askey, anything below 7th this season is a massive failure and I seriously ask is DC the right man to take us forward and will definitely not give him 10 seasons!

If it hadn’t of been for covid we would have finished in the playoffs with Askey, and I know we still got an outside chance this season but if we fail again next season then  decision s have to be made because that ain’t good enough 

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11 hours ago, TJHValiant said:

Agreed. His kicking and ball distribution were not great either. His strength was he was good at saves. However his temperament and ability to handle pressure was not good enough. 
 

He wasn’t a bad keeper, far from it but he deserved to be dropped. 
 

Holy is the sort of solid shot stopper who will get games at league 1 and 2 level because he seems solid.

In fact, Holy, with more than 150 games at league 1 level or above, he has played more games at these higher levels than any other player in our squad. 
 

He would not have achieved that being poor. 
 

 

Disagree. Covolan’s distribution is decent. Throws it out to a defender more often than not. Holy tends to kick long. And I’m not sure you can say Holy is a solid shot stopper because I can’t recall him stopping any.

Covolan was an idiot but despite everything he’s done right, I think Clarke was wrong to bad mouth him on air the way he did after Swindon and signing Holy for what was effectively two games of Covolan’s ban was not, as far as I can see, a particularly sensible use of resources. 

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59 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

Covolan was an idiot but despite everything he’s done right, I think Clarke was wrong to bad mouth him on air the way he did after Swindon and signing Holy for what was effectively two games of Covolan’s ban was not, as far as I can see, a particularly sensible use of resources. 

Perhaps not a great use of resources. Will Covolan be on a lot of money though? A goalkeeper signed from non-League shouldn't break the bank. Stone out of contract, Holy probably available, Covolan a year left. Decisions to be made in the summer for the recruitment team certainly, no obvious decision if the current situation continues.

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11 hours ago, toyahw said:

It's a project. Give it ten years.  Let's see where we are then.  Ten plus years of mis management aren't changed around over night.  This season looks like it may be headed for disappointment.  Hope not. Not sure what the problem is with that opinion. 

Not remotely true to say 10 years of mismanagement. We had a promotion and a few good years in league one during that time. 
 

I hate Smurfwaite but forgetting how it was turned around from MOLD to league 1 shows it can be done. Due to the fans and good managers who bought good players. 
 

10 years to get out of league 2 would damage the club. 

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