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Match Thread: Rochdale v Port Vale


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7 minutes ago, Joe B said:

I really can't stand the disparaging of Vale fans who get disappointed when they are inevitably let down again.

I can’t stand vale fans jumping up and down on vale players when things don’t go perfectly.

Twitter is a cesspool this morning. 

Edited by Iron Curtain
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27 minutes ago, MBE said:

IC, To be honest  I think you’re making excuses (DC personal circumstances aside) rather than being rational.

The investment in the club(manager and back room staff) and the squad. the absolute bare minimum is play offs regardless where we have come from. Our squad 1-22 is as strong, if not stronger than anyone else in this league yet we are found wanting to date. Performances, which DC always talks about are just nowhere near good enough. It’s been a really bad 4 months (when we played)

I only hope last night was the final kick up the arse the group needed to demand more from each other in those key moments to turn it around.

 

Totally agree MBE if we don’t make the playoffs it can’t be regarded as a really good season 

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22 minutes ago, Iron Curtain said:

I have a horrible feeling that a certain section of our fan base will press the self destruct button if they don’t get immediate success and ruin any chance of the club building a long term successful platform.

Sure if we lose 7 in a row and get dragged back into a relegation battle then we reassess, but to sl@g off what happening now because it’s not perfect immediately is a very very dangerous attitude.

It’s not immediate success. We have been in this division for 6 years. It will get more difficult next season sides like Stockport should fly. Granted it’s reasonably new with our structure but we still have arguably our best players at the club from the previous regime. 

If will be difficult to build a team when potentially the likes of Conlon and Gibbons leave in the summer. 

There’s nothing dangerous what so ever about rightly criticising a poor performance where we have thrown another 2 points away against the worst side we have faced this season.  We constantly get let down by vale, we’re more than in our rights to criticise / be disappointed - I’m sure it was DC who said play offs were the minimum this season. 

I thought we made drastic improvements in the summer. Some fantastic signings but I also think we have gone backwards since January, Hall and Hussey aside we look weaker. Nobody will ever convince me that signing two young lads to replace Rodney (granted poor this season) is the way to go.

I also find it interesting to see how we are actually building for the future? Looking at the signings. 

Edmondson, Harratt, Holy, Cooper. Are these all part of this development plan where we continue to build? We have ditched a young keeper who made 0 errors and is our player for one who imo looks worse and isn’t even our player. Cooper is no better than Hurst. And the two young lads are exactly that; young lads. Personally I fail to see how / where the development of this squad is / will be. Our best players in Conlon and Gibbons I’m pretty certain will leave in the summer and all the loan players leave. So we’re back to square 1, not to mention I’m guessing we will need another new keeper. Charlsley, another one, what was he signed for? Is he part of the future or is he to cover whilst Taylor and Conlon are out? The lad from Man City, strikes me as someone like Amos that we might not even see. It wouldn’t surprise me to see the summer window very similar to January with further mass changes. 

We’re not out of it yet, far from it. And as poor as I think we were last night I can’t see many sides actually beating us and we do still have games in hand, play offs are now the target which given our start and investment i find slightly disappointing. Let’s hope we improve and fast. jones and amoo back in for certain on Saturday. 

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26 minutes ago, Emile said:

2 points per game and we're in the playoffs still I believe.

 

Love your optimism of getting 2 points per game.  At the moment feel we are only going to get 1 point per game (if that) after last nights performance and other recent performances, I am beginning to feel we just aren't capable to putting a team down when we have most of the play.  Last night we had most of the play and forcing errors out of them in the first half, but could not score that all important 2nd goal in the 2nd half.  If we had scored that 2nd goal, then they would have collapsed and the floodgates opened. 

We will no doubt finish 9 or 10th at this rate.  Some would say this is a solid improvement on relegation fights we have all experienced, but the team have shown they are capable of more and teased the fans with fantastic play.  We know if it all clicks they are brilliant, hence why the players are not in Premier or Championship level as it doesn't happen all the time.

Rochdale were willing to pass the ball from their penalty area and when Vale players put them under pressure they made mistakes - but we did not really take our chances to score (again).  Then they scored with their only real chance due to another error by the players late in the game.  Felt sorry for the travelling fans seeing that happen.  Felt like a defeat last night, bet they must have been totally gutted travelling home after singing their hearts out during the match and trying to be the 12th man on the pitch.  

Could not understand why the players started to sit back last night and protect the 1 goal lead.  We know through experience this is a very dangerous thing to do, god knows how many points we have lost due to this tactic.  We always seem better when we pressure teams right up to the final whistle.

Others are saying we are playing some of the lower league teams and will take 3 points off them.  But we all know what happens when Vale play them, we seem to struggle and just can't score and take the 3 points off them.

Come on Vale prove me and others wrong for thinking this way.  We know your more than capable of winning the games.

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3 hours ago, Joe B said:

Average of 72.5 needed to finish 7th over the last 6 full seasons.

Leaves us needing 27 points from our last 16. We need to win 9+ of our last 16 games (or the equivalent, so 8 wins 3 draws), which is quite a tall order considering we've only won 4 of our last 15 and can't score more than 1 per 90.

And this is only to finish 7th.

3rd is an average of 83. We'd need 37 points from 16, or to win 12+ of our last 16.

We've completely bottled autos and have left a very narrow path to 7th (which only brings a 1 in 4 chance of promotion).

Its us or Sutton for 7th, unless Bristol keep going strong

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4 minutes ago, valiant_593 said:

Granted it’s reasonably new with our structure

Errrr… yeah exactly!

I mean it would be pretty stupid to judge the new set up based on the 4 and a half years that it wasn’t here wouldnt it?

 

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2 minutes ago, PVFC764 said:

Love your optimism of getting 2 points per game.  At the moment feel we are only going to get 1 point per game (if that) after last nights performance and other recent performances, I am beginning to feel we just aren't capable to putting a team down when we have most of the play.  Last night we had most of the play and forcing errors out of them in the first half, but could not score that all important 2nd goal in the 2nd half.  If we had scored that 2nd goal, then they would have collapsed and the floodgates opened. 

We will no doubt finish 9 or 10th at this rate.  Some would say this is a solid improvement on relegation fights we have all experienced, but the team have shown they are capable of more and teased the fans with fantastic play.  We know if it all clicks they are brilliant, hence why the players are not in Premier or Championship level as it doesn't happen all the time.

Rochdale were willing to pass the ball from their penalty area and when Vale players put them under pressure they made mistakes - but we did not really take our chances to score (again).  Then they scored with their only real chance due to another error by the players late in the game.  Felt sorry for the travelling fans seeing that happen.  Felt like a defeat last night, bet they must have been totally gutted travelling home after singing their hearts out during the match and trying to be the 12th man on the pitch.  

Could not understand why the players started to sit back last night and protect the 1 goal lead.  We know through experience this is a very dangerous thing to do, god knows how many points we have lost due to this tactic.  We always seem better when we pressure teams right up to the final whistle.

Others are saying we are playing some of the lower league teams and will take 3 points off them.  But we all know what happens when Vale play them, we seem to struggle and just can't score and take the 3 points off them.

Come on Vale prove me and others wrong for thinking this way.  We know your more than capable of winning the games.

Agree with all the above, I would just add its all well and good to set up not to loose but eventually you have to start setting up to win and believe in yourselves, i.e Forest Green / Carlisle performances spring to mind.. 

ps. to cap the night off, the journey home apart from the loss took twice as long as to go with motorway closures etc.

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10 minutes ago, Iron Curtain said:

Errrr… yeah exactly!

I mean it would be pretty stupid to judge the new set up based on the 4 and a half years that it wasn’t here wouldnt it?

 

Well we still have our best players from the previous set up???? Didn’t know the new set up signing the likes of Conlon and gibbons? 

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1 minute ago, valiant_593 said:

Well we still have our best players from the previous set up???? Didn’t know the new set up signing the likes of Conlon and gibbons? 

Not really sure how to respond to this one.

So we should judge DC and Flickers whole new approach to how port vale football club is run and their project based on the years BEFORE they got here because some of the players are the same?

I must be missing something because that’s clearly nonsense. 

 

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Saturday felt like a win, last night felt like a defeat. It's lovely to keep the unbeaten run going, but I'd rather have won one and lost one than drawn two.

We've turned the corner since the bleak mid-winter, but we're drawing far too many games. We're still setting up 'not to lose' rather than 'win' and that leaves you open to throwing away points in games like last night. At this point, I'd much rather finish 12th losing 3-2 most weeks than finish 9th because we're too scared to go and destroy teams. It was almost like it was too easy last night and we couldn't be arsed to finish them off.

I thought before last night we needed a minimum of 10 points from the next 5 games. So, that makes it 9 from the next 4 - so we need to win both home games and one of the away games. 

Then we go into the final 12 matches - 7 of which are against teams who will still fancy their chances of finishing in the top 7. Potentially seven six-pointers. 

I've given up on finishing 3rd, but I'll still be incredibly disappointed if we don't finish in the top 7. 

Let's go for the kill from the off on Saturday and give Stevenage a good hammering.

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45 minutes ago, MBE said:

I heard this too he could be away until the summer, which is very fair considering.
If this is the case why is Flitcroft not managing the team?

I don’t get it.

 

I think with this new structure, Carol has also created very clear lines on responsibilities and Flitcroft's isn't being a coach, his role is hands off with the players once they are through the door, to change that and bring him in, in that capacity wouldn't make sense. 

In Crosby, you have someone who has worked with these players pretty much every day this season, to bring Flitcroft in would create even more change to routine than is necessary.

I am one of the neutrals when it comes to where we finish this season. We're unbeaten in 7, if we win on Saturday the mood will change again to optimism amongst the fans that have written the team off this morning. That's how this season has gone. You will never have a season where everything will be in your favour, but I think injuries, a COVID break that we seem to have suffered the most with, Clarke's leave, games being postponed on top of the COVID break creating more mid-week games, less rest for players, collectively have had a big impact on our season and none of it was in our control. All the postponements have been at away grounds too. And I'm sure other clubs have suffered from some of the above but I'm pretty certain not all of them and nowhere to the extent we have experienced. 

I'm also sympathetic that people spend a lot of money to follow Vale around the grounds and midweek games are especially hard to get to so I understand that the 800+ that went last night have every right to feel disappointed coming away from a game that should have been wrapped up. But like I said above, a win last night and there would have been plenty of play off talk and I don't think the margin at the end of the season is going to be these 2 points.

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29 minutes ago, Iron Curtain said:

Errrr… yeah exactly!

I mean it would be pretty stupid to judge the new set up based on the 4 and a half years that it wasn’t here wouldnt it?

 

Yes you’ve got to give the new set up at least 10 years to build a team 😂

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Lucas, along with Benning, was sitting half a dozen seats away from me in the main stand at Tranmere. He should at least have been on the bench, as he is the best keeper at the club. He is prone to the odd rush of blood, maybe it's a Brazilian thing, look at Allison, he does the odd crazy thing but is still arguably the best keeper in the Prem. Didn't Gibbo say a while back, that the reason that Vale could press so high was due to Lucas.

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I think people are entitled to be critical we have a squad capable of play offs, carol has backed the manager the manager has highlighted that we are aiming for the play offs . Yes there are reasons for it but we are underperforming at the moment and people are spending there hard earned cash to go and watch and support so people have every right to be critical of performances. From what ive seen over the last month or so is we arent up to the standard to get into the play offs. I think we are underachieving and games in hand mean nothing of we arent picking up three points from them. Just feel like we are set up so negatively and for what reason if we got at them yesterday we would of won 2/3:0. I dont mind losing or conceding if we are havinf a decent crack at it. But we just play so negatively its frustrating knowing what we are capable of. Just get after teams 

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18 minutes ago, Iron Curtain said:

Not really sure how to respond to this one.

So we should judge DC and Flickers whole new approach to how port vale football club is run and their project based on the years BEFORE they got here because some of the players are the same?

I must be missing something because that’s clearly nonsense. 

 

Of course yeah nonsense…. 

It’s fine. Signing loan players with barely any match time is clearly the way to go - it’s served us so well in the past and will clearly help us build and develop a squad for years to come. 

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