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Match Thread: Rochdale v Port Vale


Fosse69

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20 minutes ago, Joe B said:

Average of 72.5 needed to finish 7th over the last 6 full seasons.

Leaves us needing 27 points from our last 16. We need to win 9+ of our last 16 games (or the equivalent, so 8 wins 3 draws), which is quite a tall order considering we've only won 4 of our last 15 and can't score more than 1 per 90.

And this is only to finish 7th.

3rd is an average of 83. We'd need 37 points from 16, or to win 12+ of our last 16.

We've completely bottled autos and have left a very narrow path to 7th (which only brings a 1 in 4 chance of promotion).

I suspect less will be needed this year given how tight it is.

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5 minutes ago, PV1973 said:

Rochdale just sat back and we couldn’t find the gaps or make the gaps should I say. That’s where you need a bit more creativity and maybe even a tweak in formation during the game to try and unlock them. 

Play whatever formation you like and play with no tempo and the result will be the same.

They didn’t just sit back, they had plenty of the ball, certainly first half.  We spent a lot of the first half playing in the middle third knocking 2 passes where one would do.  The opposition has time to retreat, regroup, close the space.  Your formation isn’t such a factor then, it’s about moving the ball quickly to stretch the opposition and make space which can be exploited.

Possibly the pitch was a hindrance to slick passing last night, rough, but I’d still expect to see more movement and drive from our players than we’ve seen recently.

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6 minutes ago, TJHValiant said:

We won’t be seeing Lucas ever again. It is clear he has been frozen out. 

Short term maybe but not sure about that longer term.  He came across to the fans with the other players and, after the serious business of showing support for DC, looked to be all smiles.  Who knows.  We could perhaps see a complete change again next season.

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3 minutes ago, Iron Curtain said:

Absolute sickener last night.

Have given myself a bit of time to digest. 

Lots of people angry and the old player bashing is starting in ernest on Twitter.

In a weird way that’s a bit of a positive… it’s nice to be angry that we can’t close out a promotion chance at our first time of asking rather than because we are about to fall out of the league.

Trying to be rational, the turnaround required was HUGE, and we have made great strides towards being where we want to be.

We looked brilliant earlier in the season and then a series of challenges came our way which have derailed us:

- an injury list that would have halted any club in the land

- pandemic cancelling games at a bad time and some bad luck meaning we are playing catch-up and have a horrific schedule

- and I fear that the awful news on DCs family will have a wide ranging impact on how things are run at the club for a while

This is a project, a long term one… either you buy into it and want to see it through or you don’t.

If you do, all I would suggest is to practice a bit of patience. 

 

We were playing catch up to get back into the top 7 before Clarke took leave but I do think his absence has grinded our season to a halt. Certainly not blaming anyone, I think the way the club has handled it has been pretty much perfect but it's such a big loss and it seems like he will be away for a considerable amount of time, I've heard it could be until the summer.

I want to emphasise, I'm not pointing fingers, this is completely out of anyone's control but I agree with IC above.

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I still feel we have gone backwards recently and I don’t think January helped at all. There was never a need for such a huge turnaround mid season. Just feels to me like we have gone back to that scatter gun approach to signing players. Loads of loans, none of which are good enough to get a side promoted and a keeper which we blatantly didn’t need isn’t particularly good. The area of the pitch we needed players was creatively and up top; we brought in 3 loan players who have played about 20 times together in English football. It’s no surprise this hasn’t worked. Injuries have had a huge part to play but our window was really poor - hussey and hall aside. 

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35 minutes ago, Iron Curtain said:

Absolute sickener last night.

Have given myself a bit of time to digest. 

Lots of people angry and the old player bashing is starting in ernest on Twitter.

In a weird way that’s a bit of a positive… it’s nice to be angry that we can’t close out a promotion chance at our first time of asking rather than because we are about to fall out of the league.

Trying to be rational, the turnaround required was HUGE, and we have made great strides towards being where we want to be.

We looked brilliant earlier in the season and then a series of challenges came our way which have derailed us:

- an injury list that would have halted any club in the land

- pandemic cancelling games at a bad time and some bad luck meaning we are playing catch-up and have a horrific schedule

- and I fear that the awful news on DCs family will have a wide ranging impact on how things are run at the club for a while

This is a project, a long term one… either you buy into it and want to see it through or you don’t.

If you do, all I would suggest is to practice a bit of patience. 

 

 

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Agree with this well structured post. From what was a 'superb' start performance, looking like a promotion side, all the reasons given have contibuted to the now 10th position. For a while, I have felt we lack the 'goals' enabling us to control the outcome of games. Garrity has been superb to take up the slack in Proctors absence. Wilson a super technical player, however you need around 71-75 points for a play off spot and probably 79+ for automatic. We need to be close to x2 goals/ game. We do not have this (or appear not to?)

Anticipation was rightly 'up there' and now the moderate fall is over criticised in relation to this.

That said, we should be thankful for where we are. Port Vale is and willcontinue to be a forward thinking positive club with the Shanahans and current staff in situ. 3 wins in 7 is where we are. Well organised, difficult to beat. A great team spirit and fantastic support.

 

Lets just get behind the lads. I do think that if we do get into the top 7 we will stay there. no one will want to play us.

 

UTV

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Next 4 games and il make my mind up on us. 4 games against teams below us 4 winnable games. The handbrake needs to be let off and the tempo needs raising. Don't think individuals let us down last night, but as a unit our build up play was slow and predictable. The likes of Swindon, Exeter, and Bristol would have put that game to bed by half time. If we can't pick a minimum of 10/12 points in the next 4 games we can forget the playoffs.

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1 hour ago, Guitar Ray said:

We can talk about formations and tactics til the cows come home but the biggest factor for me since the cancellations, and possibly going back beyond this, has been a distinct lack of tempo in our play.  Last night we were rolling the ball around like it was a friendly, certainly first half, just knocking it around on the halfway line, and when we lost the ball there didn’t seem to be enough urgency overall.   OK the pitch was tricky but everything looked so slow.  Add to that both teams kept turning the ball over, numerous unforced errors, making for a very scrappy affair.

In the end Wilson has to score that chance and it’s game over.  We’ll done to David Amoo who was great when he came on.

At the Northampton game a chap said I wonder if it’s a tactic not to press! It seems strange when we have had so much success when pressing teams that we suddenly stop doing it. It’s very frustrating watching the season slipping out of our grasp for the distinct lack of effort and energy.

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1 minute ago, bomber said:

At the Northampton game a chap said I wonder if it’s a tactic not to press! It seems strange when we have had so much success when pressing teams that we suddenly stop doing it. It’s very frustrating watching the season slipping out of our grasp for the distinct lack of effort and energy.

100% a tactic. We weren’t pressing due they’re style. Worrying about other sides instead of playing how we play best 

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54 minutes ago, Guitar Ray said:

Short term maybe but not sure about that longer term.  He came across to the fans with the other players and, after the serious business of showing support for DC, looked to be all smiles.  Who knows.  We could perhaps see a complete change again next season.

You make a good point. I forgot he had a two year deal. I always thought he had only a 1 year deal which makes the loan of Holy make sense. 
 

As Covalan has a two year deal the total freezing out starts to make less sense. All that we end up doing is making him less match fit and more prone to errors if he returns? 

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3 minutes ago, bomber said:

At the Northampton game a chap said I wonder if it’s a tactic not to press! It seems strange when we have had so much success when pressing teams that we suddenly stop doing it. It’s very frustrating watching the season slipping out of our grasp for the distinct lack of effort and energy.

I think it was… I think Northampton and Tranmere were more comfortable just going long over the top of the press. So it would have been way less effective.

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1 hour ago, Jacko51 said:

In my opinion both Stone and Covolan are better than Holy. 

they certainly seem almost interchangeable without much of a discernable difference - would go for Holy myself - we have been tight whilst he has been in, but if Lucas hadn't gone all Cantona against M*****y, he would probs still have the shirt - its a game of fine margins (and kungfu round kicks) 😁

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1 hour ago, Guitar Ray said:

Play whatever formation you like and play with no tempo and the result will be the same.

They didn’t just sit back, they had plenty of the ball, certainly first half.  We spent a lot of the first half playing in the middle third knocking 2 passes where one would do.  The opposition has time to retreat, regroup, close the space.  Your formation isn’t such a factor then, it’s about moving the ball quickly to stretch the opposition and make space which can be exploited.

Possibly the pitch was a hindrance to slick passing last night, rough, but I’d still expect to see more movement and drive from our players than we’ve seen recently.

Which is why I think we ended up stifling ourselves with the formation. You can’t get a tempo going when your centre midfielders are just sitting in the middle without breaking lines or linking with wing backs or playing off the centre forward. Equally the wing backs can’t get anything going when they either have our own wide forward practically on their toes or they have no options in front of them to play off in triangles. Hence the ball kept sideways or backwards. That system relies on wingbacks, but it’s not Husseys or gibbos fault that they had nothing to help them. If we’re playing wing backs I think we have to go 3-5-2

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I still can't believe that we didn't win the game. Garrity, Pett and Hall outstanding.

This isn't the best Vale side that I have ever seen, but I think that it is one of the hardest working and most will in to put the hard yards in.

My biggest concern is that we don't create enough chances and it always leaves us open to one mistake costing us. If we don't go up this season, a lack of creativity will be the only reason.

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