Leopard

[Guitar Ray]

10 minutes ago, Playa Amodores said:

NV yes it is the gateway. People don’t jump straight into class A. Cannabis is readily available and is normally smoked whilst at school. Due to it being cheap in comparison to class A and a lot people don’t progress to harder drugs. Ive known plenty of class A addicts and yes they all started using cannabis. When they don’t get the hit they start using harder drugs and then increase their intake. It’s all about chasing the first hit, words straight from an heroin addicts mouth. I form my opinion from being around addicts. 

I think you’re behind the times, plenty jump straight into class A.  Coke mostly.  Everything is dirt cheap and readily available nowadays.  Let’s also not forget that there are loads of folk who aren’t addicts, they’re occasional social users and will do a few lines on a Friday or Saturday and that’s it, in much the same way that some will have a fag when they’re out with their mates but won’t otherwise smoke.

[Playa Amodores]

Just now, Guitar Ray said:

I think you’re behind the times, plenty jump straight into class A.  Coke mostly.  Everything is dirt cheap and readily available nowadays.  Let’s also not forget that there are loads of folk who aren’t addicts, they’re occasional social users and will do a few lines on a Friday or Saturday and that’s it, in much the same way that some will have a fag when they’re out with their mates but won’t otherwise smoke.

Ray, you can be a social addict with cocaine and lots of ppl use at weekends. Heroin is something that users need on a daily basis. But as Alfie also says when you’re familiar with addicts they’ll tell you, it all starts by smoking cannabis.

[wotsyobeef]

When you say children in your post I assume you mean U18s. That is the,age group I work with and I can assure you if it was implemeted they would not wait until the age of 18 to use drugs. That is why I enjoy working with this age group as feel you can make a difference.

I imagine that must be equally frustrating and rewarding.

I don't think it would stop u18s using but I do think it would massively reduce it. Because there would be legal methods of importing them into the country, the criminal routes would be less viable as the illegal market would be much smaller. Purchasing would have a licence or similar so anyone buying large quantities would in effect be flagging themselves the authorities. To purchase over a certain amount there could be mandatory meetings with a councilor.

I am sure there would still be a criminal market in much the same way as there is for dodgy tobacco. People would work out ways to manipulate the system but overall I think regulation rather than criminalisation is the correct way to go. Outside of crime I think the increased safety due to people knowing exactly what and how much of it they are doing would be massive.

[wotsyobeef]

Ray, you can be a social addict with cocaine and lots of ppl use at weekends. Heroin is something that users need on a daily basis. But as Alfie also says when you’re familiar with addicts they’ll tell you, it all starts by smoking cannabis.

Do you think there may be anything to the point that all through childhood children have been told drugs are bad and will ruin your life. They are illegal for a reason. When they then try cannabis they realise the effects are quite mild and they can still function as a human being and its not as bad as they have been told. They then decide that they want to explore other drugs for themselves and make their own mind up.

I think a much more balanced approach would be to say this drug does this. Its symptoms are quite mild however it does have serious long term health implications such as ........ people can buy it as an adult, lots of people do however x% of long term users experience episodes of psychosis y% of long term users experience episodes of ......... Whilst at the same time making it more difficult for them to try it at a young age and ensuring that if they do try it it is in a more controlled environment.

[Guitar Ray]

40 minutes ago, Playa Amodores said:

Ray, you can be a social addict with cocaine and lots of ppl use at weekends. Heroin is something that users need on a daily basis. But as Alfie also says when you’re familiar with addicts they’ll tell you, it all starts by smoking cannabis.

You can be a social user of cocaine and not be addicted.  Fact.  Also, I’ve known more than one person in my life who’ve smoked heroin on a social basis and been able to leave it alone after a point in time and continue their life drug free with no bother.  If you work with addicts you won’t actually come into contact with these people.  To be clear, I’m not arguing the fact that cannabis is a stepping stone to other drugs, and I’m certainly not downplaying cannabis or any other drug including alcohol, simply pointing out that we’re all different and so there’s no one size fits all.  Drugs affect different people at different levels plus some of us have more addictive tendencies.  Obviously the risk is that you never know until you’ve tried a thing what the outcome will be.

[Conrad]

1 hour ago, Rory said:

One of the worst. If that stuff came on the scene now you'd be in a lot of trouble for carrying such poison.

What are your thoughts on caffeine?

Never touch coffee, only tea, and only drink alcohol on a Saturday during the football season.

[NorthwoodValiant]

52 minutes ago, Packmoor_vale said:

Cannabis is bad news fullstop.
It’s ok when your young but eventually it just turns u into a walking dope 

I thought that was what watching GB News did 😉

[Guitar Ray]

6 minutes ago, Conrad said:

Never touch coffee, only tea, and only drink alcohol on a Saturday during the football season.

I’ve started taking a couple of large measures of whisky in my coffee……purely to dilute all that nasty caffeine…..

[philpvfc]

9 hours ago, Guitar Ray said:

I’ve started taking a couple of large measures of whisky in my coffee……purely to dilute all that nasty caffeine…..

You’ll move up to Heroin soon.

[philpvfc]

11 hours ago, wotsyobeef said:

If it and other drugs were legal some of the money made from taxes could be used towards help for people experiencing problems with addiction and associated mental health issues. Licensing regulations could reduce sales to vulnerable people and children. Policing costs would reduce massively due to a reduction in both gang related and user related crime associated with drugs. Less people would be taken advantage of through smuggling and county lines due to legitimate ways to import drugs. More money could be directed towards homeless shelters and rehab facilities. Perhaps even partially staffed by the people using them.

Drug trade in the UK is estimated to be about 10 billion pounds per year and there are millions of users and even more who have tried drugs. The current system doesn't work, is a massive drain on resources and criminalises 10% of the population unnecessarily.

Rather than supporting users to overcome their issues the current system alienates them from the rest of society. Just because heroin were to be made legal wouldn't mean that people would actively go out and take it, I would imagine the majority of 1st time users only do so because they are in a position where people can take advantage of them as opposed to being in a licensed premises buying from a responsible regulated seller.

There would still be problems within society but something needs to change and the current approach isn't working. IMO Any government brave enough to make the changes would be brave and probably wouldn't be in power long enough to see the rewards to society for their bravery but would be able to sleep soundly knowing that they had made the most positive impact on society of any government in a long long time.

There is an argument for what you say but there would definitely be a massive increase in people taking drugs if they were legalised and that would also be the case if Heroin was legalised, we would have a minimum age but it would definitely become more available to children and the vulnerable, public would be more accepting of drugs and would be used more often in social environments. Lobby groups have tried for decades to ban smoking and reduce the amount of smokers with countless laws to prevent smoking but despite all the bans that have happened, advertising, increase in legal age, not on open sale, blank packaging etc. by far the biggest reason for a decline in smokers in Europe is the social stigma and the fact smoking is not liked by so many and not socially accepted anymore. You legalise drugs, it will have the reverse affect.

[philpvfc]

9 hours ago, Guitar Ray said:

You can be a social user of cocaine and not be addicted.  Fact.  Also, I’ve known more than one person in my life who’ve smoked heroin on a social basis and been able to leave it alone after a point in time and continue their life drug free with no bother.  If you work with addicts you won’t actually come into contact with these people.  To be clear, I’m not arguing the fact that cannabis is a stepping stone to other drugs, and I’m certainly not downplaying cannabis or any other drug including alcohol, simply pointing out that we’re all different and so there’s no one size fits all.  Drugs affect different people at different levels plus some of us have more addictive tendencies.  Obviously the risk is that you never know until you’ve tried a thing what the outcome will be.

Very true, for every addict no matter what they are addicted to you will find thousands and thousands of users who take in moderation. If you work in a rehab, you will only see the very worst. Heroin in its purest form is no more harmful than a cigarette, the problem comes is you often do not see it in its purest form and when you move on to injecting it.

[philmpv]

Look at what drugs do