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Match Thread: Leyton Orient v Port Vale


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3 hours ago, Bycarsbill said:

Nothing in those 2 examples, but we still seem to be getting as many, if not more, of the 'niggly' muscle injuries that we used to have when Askey was in charge and DC was highly critical of the previous methods. Just saying......

Imagine how bad it would be if we were still using the old dinosaur techniques that nearly ruined Mannys career.

You can never stop injuries.

Either you believe we have an improved approach to try and reduce their impact or you don’t, but at least we are doing something to try.

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22 minutes ago, Iron Curtain said:

Imagine how bad it would be if we were still using the old dinosaur techniques that nearly ruined Mannys career.

You can never stop injuries.

Either you believe we have an improved approach to try and reduce their impact or you don’t, but at least we are doing something to try.

I honestly don't know the answer to your question.  But I suspect like a lot of people I guess, I'm frustrated with the sheer number of injuries and the way they're now impeding our earlier season progress. Let's hope that things on the injury front soon change for the better!

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2 hours ago, valiant_593 said:

So we should just wait until Proctor maybe comes back? Wilson has already been back 3/4 games and still looks way off it. If we’re serious about getting promotion then you have to sign players good enough not just wait until a certain player comes back. What about all of those games in between? We should have been in for Loft. 

What are you on?  Just wait until Proctor maybe comes back?  All those games in between?  We had no choice but to wait. We had to wait until the window opened.  We then recruited 2 strikers, who, it would appear, you’ve written off.

Wilson is coming back from multiple injuries having broken a bone shortly after returning from a previous spell on the sidelines.  Take a look how long he’s been out for.  Do you honestly expect him to be up to full fitness in 3 or 4 games?

How do you know we weren’t in for Loft?  We were in for Politic but he went elsewhere for more money.  It’s not unreasonable to suggest that we could’ve been in for Loft, Hemmings, Beesley, or anyone else you care to mention.  Ultimately any player will go where they choose.

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When I said they were not "there for the taking" I meant we were not there to take what was for the taking. If that makes any sense. They were a poor side.  But so were Salford and we contrived to lose that. So small steps. 

The injury stuff just happens. Not sure that it is worth over analysing it.  If we can scrape a win against the iron, hopefully we can get a few back get a few in and reset. Gutted for Gibbo.  You can't legislate for that and it is the lad's job.  Wonder if Manny has suddenly perked up because there is a bit less stress and strain in the conference? Dunno. 

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Manny has played 15 games this season, hardly an ever present, in his last season here he was overweight which probably contributed to his problems. The manager has tried to look after Gibbo by leaving him out of some games and substituting him in others but he obviously has a weakness there, I hope he makes a full and speedy recovery. Wilson is another injury prone lad and doesn`t seem to retain fitness well and takes weeks to get fully sharp. 

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11 hours ago, Guitar Ray said:

What are you on?  Just wait until Proctor maybe comes back?  All those games in between?  We had no choice but to wait. We had to wait until the window opened.  We then recruited 2 strikers, who, it would appear, you’ve written off.

Wilson is coming back from multiple injuries having broken a bone shortly after returning from a previous spell on the sidelines.  Take a look how long he’s been out for.  Do you honestly expect him to be up to full fitness in 3 or 4 games?

How do you know we weren’t in for Loft?  We were in for Politic but he went elsewhere for more money.  It’s not unreasonable to suggest that we could’ve been in for Loft, Hemmings, Beesley, or anyone else you care to mention.  Ultimately any player will go where they choose.

What am I on? 

That is exactly what I meant. Proctor is still injured, it’s still January, we should have signed a suitable replacement for him, you can’t just sit there and twiddle your thumbs and wait for your two forwards to come back from injury. Look at Wilson, he still looks way off, we should have brought someone in at the start of the window that has experience imo. And that Dosent just mean a journeyman, it means someone who’s played a decent amount of games at this level. Someone like loft…

Where have I said I’ve written the two young signings off? I haven’t. The contrary, I thought it was an odd decision to leave our only player that’s scored in the last 3 games out on Saturday. I’m not convinced by Edmonson yet but Harratt looks very good. In my opinion it should have been one of the young lads sign and then someone with a bit more experience to replace Proctor. We don’t know when he will be back, if he will be at the same level and like last time could just pick up another injury, not to mention the amount of time to get back 100% fit. We can’t carry players like we are with Wilson at the moment. 

Again putting words in my mouth. I never said Wilson should be back 100% fit after 4 games. The issue with Wilson is that he Dosent stay fit; an unlucky injury this season, but he’s had issues his whole career. We 100% need a proven forward to cover Proctor and Wilson if we want to push for promotion. Also, let’s remember Wilson has 4 league goals to his name this season. I think we need someone else up top personally.

I have no idea if we were or not. I’d guess not considering we signed two strikers immediately at the start of the window. Maybe we were, I’d like to think we were in for Loft or Hemmings but I think we got our targets in Harratt and Edmonson. 

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18 hours ago, smithie said:

I'll happily admit I don't always think logically when it comes to the Vale, and see things only from a time-served Valiant's perspective! 

But it is so, so disappointing to see Accrington, Morecambe and the like playing Sheffield Wednesday and Ipswich while we entertain Salford and Harrogate.

I think of our now-fabulous stadium, current and potential support, enhanced and positive profile thanks to our superb owners, all the positivity around the place and an impending massive concert at the ground that will bring exposure we can't buy.... and we're thinking a draw against Dot Cotton's XI in the Fourth Division is a good point. 

I didn't agree at the time with us joining in with the postponing of games because it suited us. We'll never know if we would have won a couple of those cancelled games if we'd played them - yes, we were without strikers but until then the goals were coming from all over the side. The teams around us took full advantage and now we're looking up longingly at 7th place. 

I just hope we can string several wins together and get right back in the mix. 

 

The teams you mention plus the likes of Burton,Fleetwood and Wycombe deserve a bit more respect in my opinion.Bigger and better stadiums plus greater support don't guarantee you three points on the field.It's more down to management and recruitment.

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19 hours ago, Paul6754 said:

I was surprised we didn't sign an experience striker in the summer and hope we're after one right now. Nothing against the 2 new lads but it's a hell of an ask for them to some into an injury hit team pushing for promotion and score the requisite goals.

We did sign Jamie Proctor, a guy who has 11 seasons in the EFL for 15 different clubs. I'd say that's pretty experienced. 

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12 minutes ago, jjvale_03 said:

We did sign Jamie Proctor, a guy who has 11 seasons in the EFL for 15 different clubs. I'd say that's pretty experienced. 

And Proctor turned out to be an inspired signing and our best forward.

He's also not been fit for over half the season so far, and we haven't replaced him with any equivalent experience. 

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5 hours ago, valiant_593 said:

What am I on? 

That is exactly what I meant. Proctor is still injured, it’s still January, we should have signed a suitable replacement for him, you can’t just sit there and twiddle your thumbs and wait for your two forwards to come back from injury. Look at Wilson, he still looks way off, we should have brought someone in at the start of the window that has experience imo. And that Dosent just mean a journeyman, it means someone who’s played a decent amount of games at this level. Someone like loft…

Where have I said I’ve written the two young signings off? I haven’t. The contrary, I thought it was an odd decision to leave our only player that’s scored in the last 3 games out on Saturday. I’m not convinced by Edmonson yet but Harratt looks very good. In my opinion it should have been one of the young lads sign and then someone with a bit more experience to replace Proctor. We don’t know when he will be back, if he will be at the same level and like last time could just pick up another injury, not to mention the amount of time to get back 100% fit. We can’t carry players like we are with Wilson at the moment. 

Again putting words in my mouth. I never said Wilson should be back 100% fit after 4 games. The issue with Wilson is that he Dosent stay fit; an unlucky injury this season, but he’s had issues his whole career. We 100% need a proven forward to cover Proctor and Wilson if we want to push for promotion. Also, let’s remember Wilson has 4 league goals to his name this season. I think we need someone else up top personally.

I have no idea if we were or not. I’d guess not considering we signed two strikers immediately at the start of the window. Maybe we were, I’d like to think we were in for Loft or Hemmings but I think we got our targets in Harratt and Edmonson. 

Suffice to say whether or not we were in for your experienced striker, of which very few were/are actually available, we didn’t land him.  Who’s fault is that?  The supposed big names have gone so who else is on your list?  We’ve got 2 forwards in, Edmonson has played games prior, Harratt hasn’t.  They could turn out to be great, better than Loft, Hemmings, et al.  Only time will tell.  I’d rather judge their worth to the team at the end of the season rather than now.  You seem to be taking a short term view based on nothing more than perceived reputation and 2 or 3 brief appearances.

To be clear, not only does it seem that you’re dissatisfied with the 2 new strikers we got through the door pretty much as soon as the window opened, you’re also now writing Wilson off.  Wilson isn’t the only player we’re “carrying”, please try to keep up, numerous players are injured.  Several, so we’re told, have been playing when not fully fit.  This is a fact of life at most clubs, certainly at our level.

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28 minutes ago, Joe B said:

And Proctor turned out to be an inspired signing and our best forward.

He's also not been fit for over half the season so far, and we haven't replaced him with any equivalent experience. 

The poster said we didn't sign an experienced striker in the summer. We clearly did.

Right now we should be looking to move on Rodney for the sake of all parties involved and use the fee and wage on a replacement who can (at the very least) fill in for Wilson and Proctor until they're fit enough to properly contribute. I really like the signings of Harratt and Edmonson (Harratt in particular) but to put a promotion bid on their shoulders is asking for trouble.

 

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5 minutes ago, jjvale_03 said:

 

Right now we should be looking to move on Rodney for the sake of all parties involved and use the fee and wage on a replacement who can (at the very least) fill in for Wilson and Proctor until they're fit enough to properly contribute. 

 

It'd a mid-season transfer window, a ridiculous time to make such wholesale changes. 

Edited by mr.hobblesworth

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52 minutes ago, Guitar Ray said:

Suffice to say whether or not we were in for your experienced striker, of which very few were/are actually available, we didn’t land him.  Who’s fault is that?  The supposed big names have gone so who else is on your list?  We’ve got 2 forwards in, Edmonson has played games prior, Harratt hasn’t.  They could turn out to be great, better than Loft, Hemmings, et al.  Only time will tell.  I’d rather judge their worth to the team at the end of the season rather than now.  You seem to be taking a short term view based on nothing more than perceived reputation and 2 or 3 brief appearances.

To be clear, not only does it seem that you’re dissatisfied with the 2 new strikers we got through the door pretty much as soon as the window opened, you’re also now writing Wilson off.  Wilson isn’t the only player we’re “carrying”, please try to keep up, numerous players are injured.  Several, so we’re told, have been playing when not fully fit.  This is a fact of life at most clubs, certainly at our level.

Not written Wilson off in any way shape or form. You don’t think we’ve been carrying him recently? He looks about 50% fit. Conlon ect have looked much fitter, with their injuries…. The issue is it took him a long time to get going at the start of the season and is again, potentially we could end up finishing the season with Wilson being 100% for about 20 games. This is why I think we need another proven forward, with Proctor being out for a while and Wilson not a full pelt for a large part, we’re then left with sticking two wingers up top in Rodney and Amoo (completely wasting them) 

Not basing anything on reputation at all. I’m very happy with the Harratt signing, he looks a very good player, I will judge them at the end of the season. It’s just my opinion that we may have been better signing an experienced striker and a younger striker. Not two extremely inexperienced ones. 

Probably am taking a short term view, but what other view is there in this case? Neither are actually Port Vale players so the case of developing them Dosent really fit here. A side chasing promotion should sign players for either the short term in January to push them to promotion (looking at players like Hughes and purse) or players ready to play in league 1. For me Hussey and Hall certainly fit into both. No chance of signing Harratt permanently either….

They may turn out to be great players, I imagine Harratt will be, and certainly better than the likes of Loft, but he more than likely won’t be at Port Vale when he’s at that level.

At the minute i want us to start with one of the young lads, Harratt because of his goals and then Wilson. And straight away there’s an issue, Wilson isn’t fit, so then you look at two young lads starting together with little experience. I just think we’re missing another forward. I’d be delighted if we finish the window, with Harratt, edmonson and another forward signed.

To reiterate. Delighted with the Harratt signing, I’ll give Edmonson time as well, I was just hoping in January we would have signed a striker of the Hussey ilk along with one of the younger lads. 

Edited by valiant_593

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Yeah I'm all for the long-term approach but we have to get out of this tinpot league pronto and we had/have a very decent chance of doing so this year. Short-term, 'get over the line' signings are needed. Lee Hughes and Darren Purse were 6 month signings that did the trick perfectly. Probably on more than the rest of the squad, no resale value at all, but got us promoted and everyone wins.

We've not been in the bottom tier for more than 5 consecutive seasons since the 1940s. That's what we're looking at right now.

Edited by Joe B

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