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Cricket - the Ashes 2021


robf
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Pretty hopeless that from England, no surprise with how Identical our attack is. 

Why has wood been rested? I know he has injury problems but this is the Ashes. What are we resting him for? So he can play test 4 and 5 when we’re 3/0 down? Same as broad and Anderson why were they not selected? Resting players for the biggest series is a joke. 

I like Woakes, he’s a great player but always struggles to take wickets abroad, he’s blatantly playing here because of his batting. 

Buttler was appalling, no fight, no energy and really poor keeping. Just hope we can show a bit of something with bat. 

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Our batting line up is a joke. Root is the only decent one. They put all the England batsman averages for 2021 on screen the other day and they were all averaging in the 20s apart from Crawley who averaged 11 and root in the 60s. Basically the whole batting line up needs changing really as if you can't average 40 or more then your no good to the team. Buttler, bairstow, Pope, Burns ect have now all played enough test games now to be given a fair chance of it and none of them are getting big scores. Pope had a good start to his test career but in the last 2 years hasn't done much.

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21 minutes ago, valiant_593 said:

Can we just concede the series 5-0 and be done with it. So many players not remotely close to test level. 

I completely agree. I think we need to get back and get a long-term plan in place. The whole game needs sorting out, root and branch. Sort out youngsters' pathways into the game, sort out a coaching network, look at how the county game could develop Test quality players, especially spinners. Work out a balance and a schedule so that long-form and short-form games can take place but don't interfere with each other. Take a long-term approach to things like the captaincy, the selectors. Just go away and start with a blank canvas and come up with a long-term plan to be competitive in say 5-6 years time.

Will it happen? Not a chance!

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8 minutes ago, Andy Proctor said:

Pope had a good start to his test career but in the last 2 years hasn't done much.

I really like Pope as he has all the skills to be another Ian Bell. However, he's having chance after chance after chance without taking them. There's only so long you can persist with potential before they become a Hick or a Ramprakash.

After thinking he could be the next England star, I really fear he may never make it now. 

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Sadly we simply aren't as good as the top 3(in test cricket) at the moment at least consistently and certainly away from home.  We can compete in our own conditions where we have a good bowling attack but New Zealand, India and Australia have a better side than us for the longer format at least. And in their own back yards we simply don't have a prayer unless they have an off match

What's the answer I'm not sure, Root is our only consistently world class player, Stokes has great natural talent but is hit and miss(hopefully he'll come good again after his absence soon) and I think Buttler tries hard to make it work as a test player(when his natural game isn't that) and likewise Malan but otherwise batting wise it's average at best when faced with a decent bowling attack. 

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6 hours ago, robf said:

I completely agree. I think we need to get back and get a long-term plan in place. The whole game needs sorting out, root and branch. Sort out youngsters' pathways into the game, sort out a coaching network, look at how the county game could develop Test quality players, especially spinners. Work out a balance and a schedule so that long-form and short-form games can take place but don't interfere with each other. Take a long-term approach to things like the captaincy, the selectors. Just go away and start with a blank canvas and come up with a long-term plan to be competitive in say 5-6 years time.

Will it happen? Not a chance!

Completely agree. I think most have been saying this for quite some time, this complete restart should have already happened, we should have been going into the ashes with a reasonably new side imo. Too many players who have been given chance after chance and don’t perform. 

Burns is a huge issue imo. On Bt this morning they put up his form this year, there’s a couple of decent scores in there, something like 1 century and 3/4 50s but the amount of low scores was ridiculous for an opener. (6 ducks as well) he needs to be dropped imo. Regardless of the 2nd innings, he isn’t the answer, he’s a decent player when he’s in but he’s quite easy to target early doors. Hameed I think will be ok, he’s technically sound but needs to add another shot to his armoury, and not play horrible shots like that today. 

There are good players out there, we just don’t select them. It’s criminal that Foakes still isn’t involved over Buttler, leave him and Bairstow to the one day stuff where they’re brilliant. Chance after chance for players who have quite low averages. 

Pope is the frustrating one. He looks good every time he bats, he’s clearly good enough, but I always feel he will go out in the 30s. Time running out for him as well. 

After the Ashes some serious changes need to be made. Silverwood needs to go, and I wouldn’t mind seeing Root being replaced as captain as well. Give that to Stokes (who I think has been fantastic this game so far). I can’t believe after all the talking of ‘we need a varied attack’ we go in with 4 80mp right armed medium pacers and no spinner. 

The really frustrating thing for me is that a couple of players aside, these aren’t very good. Their bowling attack in this game looks very weak, starc is only dangerous up front and leaks runs as well, if we can’t get 350 ish in this pitch against this attack then we really are hopeless. 

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5 hours ago, Shropshire_Valiant said:

Sadly we simply aren't as good as the top 3(in test cricket) at the moment at least consistently and certainly away from home.  We can compete in our own conditions where we have a good bowling attack but New Zealand, India and Australia have a better side than us for the longer format at least. And in their own back yards we simply don't have a prayer unless they have an off match

What's the answer I'm not sure, Root is our only consistently world class player, Stokes has great natural talent but is hit and miss(hopefully he'll come good again after his absence soon) and I think Buttler tries hard to make it work as a test player(when his natural game isn't that) and likewise Malan but otherwise batting wise it's average at best when faced with a decent bowling attack. 

Agree. Away from home I think we will struggle against most test sides, don’t see enough quality in the batting. Imo the only two world class players are Root and Stokes, Stokes is hit and miss with the bat but he’s coming in far too early every game because of the openers. It’s easy for someone like smith, who’s quality anyway, to come in and face and old ball, our best players seem to be in against the brand new ball every innings. I don’t mind Malan, I think he’s decent although with his age they need to have someone else in mind other than Zak Crawley for that spot. Decent players in the county game getting overlooked. Tom Haines is someone I rate who is improving, need to try someone else (again) other than Burns. 

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All good comments Valiant_593 and that without considering the bowlers. This is quite possibly Andersons last tour and Broad is not getting any younger. That 1,100 wickets leaving the side and the cornerstone of our bowling attack for the last 10 years.. And who do we have lined up, Woakes - no, Wood - too injury prone, Archer may never come back. All we really have to build on is Robinson who actually looks like a good prospect. But we are desperately short of ny sort of quality spin and we only seem to produce 80mph seamers. 

Our bowling prospects are as dim if not dimmer than that batting.

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I watched up until lunch live and England bowled much better than on the first day, they bowled more at the stumps and a fuller length so the Aussies had to play as a result England shaded the first session. What happened in the last two sessions I can only guess but there was a bit in this pitch during the mornings play.

It looks as though the England team are 2nd best in all departments in this series so a heavy defeat in the test series looks likely.

Looking over the last twenty years England tend to win or draw in English conditions and Australia in Aussie conditions although the Aussies do tend to win big down under.  To me it is the bowling attacks that determine the series outcome, particularly fast bowlers in Australia and England just don't appear to produce a world class quickie who can stay fit never mind a top class spinner.

The ECB have been looking at how to produce World Class fast bowlers for decades but one after another seems to falter.

IMHO The batsmen play more rash shots these days due to the amount of i-day cricket and that clocks not turning back. Why English batsmen appear to play more rash shots or don't play straight compared to Aussies is a conundrum.

 

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There are many problems in English county cricket. We seem to only play 4 day cricket at the beginning and end of the season and use a Dukes ball in them. In the damp conditions we normally get at that time of year the Dukes ball moves around a lot. This makes mediocre seamers look good and means a batsman is never really in so probably feels they have to play their shots, as there will be a ball coming down with their name on it. It also means spinners are rarely in the game.

There is no real excuse for how badly we are batting at the moment mind you.

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Jesus. I would love us to just surrender the series and come home. We all knew we would lose convincingly, but this is embarrassing. They’re missing their two best bowlers, on a good batting track and we serve that <ovf censored> up, a couple of players aside, we’re atrocious. 
 

Burns, Buttler and pope all to be dropped ASAP. Woakes is great but not in these conditions and we only pick up to add a bit more batting. 4 changes next game. Although it’s just the same tried and failed players having another chance. I’d be tempted bat woakes above Buttler as well. 

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It's not looking pretty at all or England. My issue is who in the team can you depend on to get runs or wickets... There are three batters who you think can get runs, Malan, Root, Stokes. Possibly being slightly unfair on Hameed who has looked good without getting a decent score yet. 

For the bowlers its looking worse. Stokes can be relied on to put in a shift and cause problems, Anderson will at least keep it tight. Beyond that Broad has looked farily innocuous, Woakes has been rank, Leach untrusted by Root, Wood, good but might break at any moment and only works in short spells. 

Autralia have had the measure of us and have been brilliantly disciplined. They have had the best of the conditions in this match because they have been able to hang on in there when the conditions weren't in their favour. We haven't done the same, consequently once again our tired bowlers have to put in another shift.

Whilst I don't want it to be all about the Ashes, there will be a clear out at the end of this tour. I only hope that it is at the end of the tour and we dont have another Graham Swann retirement mid-series. Its been clear for several years that there are problems with the England batting. We have relied on an excellent middle order to get us out of trouble too many times. You would have to put Australia as favourites when they next tour here. We could be in for another mid 90's forgettable couple of years with a very average England side, which is rediculous as the side has Englands best ever bowler, one of the best ever batters, and the best ever all-rounder. 

 

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49 minutes ago, valiant_593 said:

Burns, Buttler and pope all to be dropped ASAP. Woakes is great but not in these conditions and we only pick up to add a bit more batting. 4 changes next game. Although it’s just the same tried and failed players having another chance. I’d be tempted bat woakes above Buttler as well. 

I've just read that the England Lions squad has been sent home so at least that means that the likes of Rob Yates (who everyone seems to be touting as the next opener) will not be thrown in at the deep end. I guess that's a good thing but it does mean that if Burns is dropped then the only reasonable option is Zak Crawley, England's run machine (not). I guess it doesn't really matter - this series is lost and the whole squad (minus four or five players) are simply not up to it. 

I think England will chop and change for the third Test but I can't see anything changing as the squad isn't good enough.

Hopefully, there will be a proper clear-out after this. I would think Malan, Root, Stokes, Robinson, Wood and possibly Hameed would be retained, but as for the rest of them - I'm afraid that could be it. It may even be the end for Broad and Anderson if they decide to hang up the boots. 

It will mean potentially a really raw and inexperienced England side in the future - perhaps with the likes of Rob Yates and Harry Brook coming into the batting and I'd like to see Parkinson given a go as the spinner. But perhaps the most important thing is who captains the side. I don't think Root is up to it but the obvious replacement is Stokes and will that just increase his workload even more? What if he picks up an injury (as he's being doing recently)? So, even if England rebuild there's no obvious solutions and a side full of untested youngsters could also suffer. 

It's a right mess and considering all the talk was about "preparing" for this Ashes, it could not have gone much worse.

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If it wasn't real it would be funny but again England did well in the first session, Root and Milan batted beautifully, Starc was quick but a tad wayward but Lyon was threatening, both batsmen seemed set for big scores but then the usual returned after lunch.

The Aussies are a better batting side than England but the biggest difference lies in the bowling attack. Michel Starc regularly bowls at 90miles/hr+ from a height of 6" 6" producing pace and bounce in Aussie conditions the English batsmen can't cope with, and that's not including Hazlewood and Cummins.  England don't have anyone of that pace apart from Wood and he's not been selected. To add dimension to their attack they have Lyon who's a much better spinner than anyone England have.

As Bycars Rob says above English conditions produce great swing bowlers but they're just not as effective in Aussie conditions. This has been the case and has been talked about for the donkey's years yet nothing changes.

England need to find some tall, strong, athletic guys who can bowl at 90mi/hr+ to compete in Aussie conditions, it will continue to be a struggle down under until we do.

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As many people have stated we need a massive overhaul of all matters regarding test cricket. Until then either us or the Australian authorities need to call a halt to any further Ashes test series.  The last few serious have been embarrassing for Cricket England. Perhaps we need a few years break, or amalgamation between other test nations to face the Aussies. This may seem radical, but we cannot keep touring Australia with our current teams

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