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Match Thread: Port Vale v Hartlepool United


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8 minutes ago, darren1810 said:

Again though people are basing their opinions on Johnson on what ?

45 minutes at Northampton and 10 minutes at Sutton ? 

At Northampton he was hooked at half time having had a dodgy start to his Vale career. Not the greatest of debuts. 

He came on at Sutton but we didn't lose because of him , same as we didn't lose at Oldham because of Legge. 

His stats last season were mightily impressive and he was a mainstay of a promotion winning team. 

I don't go to the Paint pot games so can't say how he played in the 3 games but we did have 2 clean sheets albeit one against Liverpool toddlers. 

I aren't writing him off yet and until he gets at least a 5 game run in League games neither should he be. 

I agree. He was never going to get a look in when we were winning 9 in 13. He may get another chance yet. Wilson started slow and many (including me) were worried. Some people now think we're in deep trouble without him. To write a lad off this early seems very presumptuous. 

Edited by Joe B
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I agree. He was never going to get a look in when we were winning 9 in 13. He may get another chance yet. Wilson started slow and many (including me) were worried. Some people now think we're in deep trouble without him. To write a lad off this early seems very presumptuous. 
To be fair, he's played 109 minutes of league football for us. That's 100 minutes more than some Vale fans need to judge a player and come to an informed decision which cannot be questioned
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2 hours ago, Joe B said:

I'm not well respected but this is a view I've shared so I will offer a response.

Not great, just not poor as you said. I still think that a team that plays a new goalkeeper and 2/3 new centre halves, and is in 5th with the 7th least goals conceded can't be considered to have had a 'poor' defensive recruitment. If it is, then Lord knows what the other 16 teams have done. 

Just getting a bit binary. If we don't agree it's 'poor', then we must think its 'great'. There isn't a single League 2 team who has a 100% hit rate on signings, so the argument that Benning and Martin are bad means the recruitment was poor doesn't stand up with me. I've criticised Jones, Cass, and Lucas at various points this season, but they still form 75% of a defence which is amongst the best in the division.

I agree that a commanding centre half would be nice. Room for improvement definitely, but that's to be expected in a rebuild the size of ours. It would be naive to assume we'd address every flaw in one window. Johnson has barely been given a chance, and especially not as the 'dominant' centre half, after one dodgy debut and then excellent form in the team. Maybe he'll get a chance. 

 

If I'd told you back in May that our strongest/preferred back 5 (3 CBs, 2 WB) would consist of 4 players who were already at the club - and one of them was a midfielder - would you have been happy? Because despite signing 6 defenders over the summer, only one of them (Jones) would get into our 'best' starting XI with the managers preferred formation. 

Gibbo - Jones - Legge - Smith - Wozza

We disagree on defensive recruitment so there's no point in continuing to go over the same ground.

An area we may agree on is that if we have no intention of using Ryan Johnson (could also use the same argument for Amos although he is only 21!) then it's in our best interests to try to work something out in January that allows him to move on and for us to replace him with someone who will get us over the line. 

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22 minutes ago, jjvale_03 said:

If I'd told you back in May that our strongest/preferred back 5 (3 CBs, 2 WB) would consist of 4 players who were already at the club - and one of them was a midfielder - would you have been happy? Because despite signing 6 defenders over the summer, only one of them (Jones) would get into our 'best' starting XI with the managers preferred formation. 

Gibbo - Jones - Legge - Smith - Wozza

We disagree on defensive recruitment so there's no point in continuing to go over the same ground.

An area we may agree on is that if we have no intention of using Ryan Johnson (could also use the same argument for Amos although he is only 21!) then it's in our best interests to try to work something out in January that allows him to move on and for us to replace him with someone who will get us over the line. 

Although we’ll never know for sure, I’d guess the idea would probably have been to play Wozz/ Gibbo, Smith, Martin, Jones, Benning if playing wingbacks.  Martin and Benning came with decent reputations.  I don’t think recruitment was bad, rather those two players mentioned haven’t been at the heights we’d expect from them, and I’d add that Jones up until recently was playing better than most fans would’ve expected.

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27 minutes ago, jjvale_03 said:

If I'd told you back in May that our strongest/preferred back 5 (3 CBs, 2 WB) would consist of 4 players who were already at the club - and one of them was a midfielder - would you have been happy? Because despite signing 6 defenders over the summer, only one of them (Jones) would get into our 'best' starting XI with the managers preferred formation. 

Gibbo - Jones - Legge - Smith - Wozza

We disagree on defensive recruitment so there's no point in continuing to go over the same ground.

An area we may agree on is that if we have no intention of using Ryan Johnson (could also use the same argument for Amos although he is only 21!) then it's in our best interests to try to work something out in January that allows him to move on and for us to replace him with someone who will get us over the line. 

I think Jones and Cass are still in our best 'back 5, + Lucas. I'd also argue that the likes of Pett contribute more defensively than Worrall so it's hard to assess defensive utility purely based on where the players are lined up in the formation. 

I agree with you that there is a hole currently in the squad; a challenge for Leon Legge. I thought Martin would provide that, and I'm not as out on him as others, but he had 100% been disappointing. I also don't think the club has 'no intention' of using Johnson. He had a dodgy debut and has struggled to get back into a team that were winning at a relentless pace. He'll get his chances and I'm not willing to write him off after 100 minutes of EFL football.

Our broad point is in agreement; defense still needs signings. I didn't expect every flaw of the squad to be addressed to a good standard in one window.

Edited by Joe B

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34 minutes ago, jjvale_03 said:

If I'd told you back in May that our strongest/preferred back 5 (3 CBs, 2 WB) would consist of 4 players who were already at the club - and one of them was a midfielder - would you have been happy? Because despite signing 6 defenders over the summer, only one of them (Jones) would get into our 'best' starting XI with the managers preferred formation. 

Gibbo - Jones - Legge - Smith - Wozza

We disagree on defensive recruitment so there's no point in continuing to go over the same ground.

An area we may agree on is that if we have no intention of using Ryan Johnson (could also use the same argument for Amos although he is only 21!) then it's in our best interests to try to work something out in January that allows him to move on and for us to replace him with someone who will get us over the line. 

I’m fine with how we’ve done so far and the players performances, it doesn’t matter what we would have said in preseason because the majority of performances have justified Clarkes decisions.

Arguably Cass could be in over Legge in your back 5 because our best form has come with Legge out of the side through injury. No one described Benning or Martin as bad signings when we signed them and I think that those 2 haven’t haven’t got a consistent run of games because of the form of Gibbo, Smith Cass and Jones which has seen those 2 kept out of the team.

Amos and Johnson are the 2 squad members way down the pecking order of defenders which is probably the same for every squad up and down the country. 

The fact that not all the new signings aren’t featuring in the starting 11 isn’t necessarily a bad thing, because the point of any new signing is to increase competition and if in turn that makes current players step up even more then that’s a good thing.  It’s up to the others to take their chance when they get it, if they don’t then come January we’ll be bringing in someone else. 
 

On the other side of the coin if we were playing 4 at the back then smith and gibbo would have probably been nailed on starters with the rest fighting it out for 2 positions, which I think we’d probably all agree on. 

Edited by PV1973

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I tend to not make a judgement on signings till season ends .
I think they all have a part play and hopefully all will in a good way help us progress and give us a fighting chance of promotion .
I think mainly Vales performances have been a 7 out of 10 collectively I think on occasions they have reached a fantastic 8 and occassionally in spasms dropped to a 3 but generally that's whats attracting folk back to the stadium Good exciting football that's what bar Walsall (never any different when we play them no wonder me nephew said I'm not going against them).
UTV

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Doesn't look like drastic changes if you watch Clarke's interview.

Injury wise - "We have had one or two kicks in the teeth if I am honest with you but we have to regroup and the other lads have to come out and show they are ready to go.”

 

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If he's fit Jake Taylor has to start on Saturday to provide some creativity. In the absence of Conlon and if DC plays 3-5-2  I'd play Smith Legge Jones at the back, Taylor, Pett Garrity as the 3 in midfield with 2 from Lloyd, Rodney, Politic up front if Proctor isn't fit enough for 90.

If DC goes 4-3-3 Then I'd play Gibbo Smith Legge Jones at the back, Taylor Pett and Garrity, Wozza Lloyd Rodney/Politic again if Proctor isn't fit and look to get Walker some game time whatever formation is played.

 

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13 minutes ago, onestepatatime said:

Controversial I know but even though Pett is a competent midfielder has anyone yet seen him after 60 minutes of play? To me he disappears after an hour.

Runs a game. One of those players some fans just don’t notice or appreciate. 

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