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Match Thread: Port Vale v Hartlepool United


Fosse69

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43 minutes ago, darren1810 said:

Enjoy your weekend away. 

I'm not advocating 6 changes and wholesale carnage but I think it doesn't send out a very good message if some of those keep their place. 

Hate naming individuals as it does appear as scapegoating but I'm afraid maybe taking out of the firing line will refresh Jones . He simply can't be selected after Tuesday . 

Walker also has to come into consideration. He's played about 4 games this season and probably would of played nearly every game had he not got injured. For me he's a first team player and was for the first few games. Been written off by some on here but his Vale career hasn't got going yet. 

If there aren't at least 3 changes I'd expect that Clarke will be answering his door with regularity. 

 

 

 

 

Problem with Walker is that he persistently gets yellow cards and is on 4 at the moment. 

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14 hours ago, 1 said:

I really don’t get why we have no big beast centre halves apart from Legge if Clarke knew from the start that 5 at the back was the plan.

According to all the well respected posters on here, our defensive recruitment over the summer was great. No need to have a back up for a 36 year old.

The truth is Johnson and Martin were signed for this reason but they're both not up to it. Teams have now worked out that if you isolate Cass and/or Jones aerially then you can hurt us and we're paying the price. It'd be the priority in January to bring in a commanding CB. 

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I agree to a extent .
Dc has a big job on his hands .
It's easy when you are winning every game as you just say to the players keep doing what has got us up there but if you are like me and you see that even when we were winning there was a carelessness about our work at times defensively then eventually the good karma you create will eventually become bad karma as teams will eventually not miss free headers and free opportunities
Lets look back at past seasons how many did we concede with the ones who still represent us playing for us ,you will find it was quite a substantial amount .
Our attacking play as somewhat diminished that up until last three games where errors are being made ,great goals ain't going in against us you could say they were all poor giveaways from a Vale point of view but when you have score 4 and 5 respectively to beat the likes of Oldham and Sutton you know that we are not super tight at the back .
Are we going be though so let's concentrate on what we are good at ATTACKING and out scoring the opposition .
Suppose we could go mega defensive but I wouldn't our strength is ATTACKING.
Playing brave get up there end football
I know defending is a art but we continually season after season do not do it very well
This season bar the odd game the forward play at Vale has being a delight but defensively at times huge embarrassment
Rochdale h 2 -3 going forwards we scored 2 excellent goals well Proctor did but the 3 given away were shocking
Sutton 4-3 completely dominate the game score 3 excellent worked goals yet manage under no massive threat from opposition concede 4 from 5 on target attempts
Then recently Oldham
It needs to stop this nonsense of conceding goals its like the whole team switches off we have created our own downfall the last 3 games.
Let's get entertaining let's get forwards on sat and most importantly each player lays there bodies on the line for PVFC

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2 hours ago, jjvale_03 said:

According to all the well respected posters on here, our defensive recruitment over the summer was great. No need to have a back up for a 36 year old.

The truth is Johnson and Martin were signed for this reason but they're both not up to it. Teams have now worked out that if you isolate Cass and/or Jones aerially then you can hurt us and we're paying the price. It'd be the priority in January to bring in a commanding CB. 

To be fair they’re not tiny and should be able to win a header, but like you say the whole defence needs to improve. In fact the whole team when defending needs to improve.

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2 hours ago, jjvale_03 said:

According to all the well respected posters on here, our defensive recruitment over the summer was great. No need to have a back up for a 36 year old.

The truth is Johnson and Martin were signed for this reason but they're both not up to it. Teams have now worked out that if you isolate Cass and/or Jones aerially then you can hurt us and we're paying the price. It'd be the priority in January to bring in a commanding CB. 

I'm not well respected but this is a view I've shared so I will offer a response.

Not great, just not poor as you said. I still think that a team that plays a new goalkeeper and 2/3 new centre halves, and is in 5th with the 7th least goals conceded can't be considered to have had a 'poor' defensive recruitment. If it is, then Lord knows what the other 16 teams have done. 

Just getting a bit binary. If we don't agree it's 'poor', then we must think its 'great'. There isn't a single League 2 team who has a 100% hit rate on signings, so the argument that Benning and Martin are bad means the recruitment was poor doesn't stand up with me. I've criticised Jones, Cass, and Lucas at various points this season, but they still form 75% of a defence which is amongst the best in the division.

I agree that a commanding centre half would be nice. Room for improvement definitely, but that's to be expected in a rebuild the size of ours. It would be naive to assume we'd address every flaw in one window. Johnson has barely been given a chance, and especially not as the 'dominant' centre half, after one dodgy debut and then excellent form in the team. Maybe he'll get a chance. 

 

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Again though people are basing their opinions on Johnson on what ?

45 minutes at Northampton and 10 minutes at Sutton ? 

At Northampton he was hooked at half time having had a dodgy start to his Vale career. Not the greatest of debuts. 

He came on at Sutton but we didn't lose because of him , same as we didn't lose at Oldham because of Legge. 

His stats last season were mightily impressive and he was a mainstay of a promotion winning team. 

I don't go to the Paint pot games so can't say how he played in the 3 games but we did have 2 clean sheets albeit one against Liverpool toddlers. 

I aren't writing him off yet and until he gets at least a 5 game run in League games neither should he be. 

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8 minutes ago, darren1810 said:

Again though people are basing their opinions on Johnson on what ?

45 minutes at Northampton and 10 minutes at Sutton ? 

At Northampton he was hooked at half time having had a dodgy start to his Vale career. Not the greatest of debuts. 

He came on at Sutton but we didn't lose because of him , same as we didn't lose at Oldham because of Legge. 

His stats last season were mightily impressive and he was a mainstay of a promotion winning team. 

I don't go to the Paint pot games so can't say how he played in the 3 games but we did have 2 clean sheets albeit one against Liverpool toddlers. 

I aren't writing him off yet and until he gets at least a 5 game run in League games neither should he be. 

I agree. He was never going to get a look in when we were winning 9 in 13. He may get another chance yet. Wilson started slow and many (including me) were worried. Some people now think we're in deep trouble without him. To write a lad off this early seems very presumptuous. 

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I agree. He was never going to get a look in when we were winning 9 in 13. He may get another chance yet. Wilson started slow and many (including me) were worried. Some people now think we're in deep trouble without him. To write a lad off this early seems very presumptuous. 
To be fair, he's played 109 minutes of league football for us. That's 100 minutes more than some Vale fans need to judge a player and come to an informed decision which cannot be questioned
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2 hours ago, Joe B said:

I'm not well respected but this is a view I've shared so I will offer a response.

Not great, just not poor as you said. I still think that a team that plays a new goalkeeper and 2/3 new centre halves, and is in 5th with the 7th least goals conceded can't be considered to have had a 'poor' defensive recruitment. If it is, then Lord knows what the other 16 teams have done. 

Just getting a bit binary. If we don't agree it's 'poor', then we must think its 'great'. There isn't a single League 2 team who has a 100% hit rate on signings, so the argument that Benning and Martin are bad means the recruitment was poor doesn't stand up with me. I've criticised Jones, Cass, and Lucas at various points this season, but they still form 75% of a defence which is amongst the best in the division.

I agree that a commanding centre half would be nice. Room for improvement definitely, but that's to be expected in a rebuild the size of ours. It would be naive to assume we'd address every flaw in one window. Johnson has barely been given a chance, and especially not as the 'dominant' centre half, after one dodgy debut and then excellent form in the team. Maybe he'll get a chance. 

 

If I'd told you back in May that our strongest/preferred back 5 (3 CBs, 2 WB) would consist of 4 players who were already at the club - and one of them was a midfielder - would you have been happy? Because despite signing 6 defenders over the summer, only one of them (Jones) would get into our 'best' starting XI with the managers preferred formation. 

Gibbo - Jones - Legge - Smith - Wozza

We disagree on defensive recruitment so there's no point in continuing to go over the same ground.

An area we may agree on is that if we have no intention of using Ryan Johnson (could also use the same argument for Amos although he is only 21!) then it's in our best interests to try to work something out in January that allows him to move on and for us to replace him with someone who will get us over the line. 

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22 minutes ago, jjvale_03 said:

If I'd told you back in May that our strongest/preferred back 5 (3 CBs, 2 WB) would consist of 4 players who were already at the club - and one of them was a midfielder - would you have been happy? Because despite signing 6 defenders over the summer, only one of them (Jones) would get into our 'best' starting XI with the managers preferred formation. 

Gibbo - Jones - Legge - Smith - Wozza

We disagree on defensive recruitment so there's no point in continuing to go over the same ground.

An area we may agree on is that if we have no intention of using Ryan Johnson (could also use the same argument for Amos although he is only 21!) then it's in our best interests to try to work something out in January that allows him to move on and for us to replace him with someone who will get us over the line. 

Although we’ll never know for sure, I’d guess the idea would probably have been to play Wozz/ Gibbo, Smith, Martin, Jones, Benning if playing wingbacks.  Martin and Benning came with decent reputations.  I don’t think recruitment was bad, rather those two players mentioned haven’t been at the heights we’d expect from them, and I’d add that Jones up until recently was playing better than most fans would’ve expected.

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