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Match Thread: Port Vale v Walsall


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42 minutes ago, mbycars said:

I actually thought we played better once he got sent off. We at least still tried to get forward, even though we rarely threatened as they just sat back and soaked up everything .

 

We did. But the others players knew they had to up the effort to stay in the game. And I think Walsall felt well enough in control to be content with what they had.

Walsall simply wanted it more than us, and that's the sickener. Why is that? Why weren't we enraged at what happened on Saturday - The players should have been chomping at the bit and raring to go from 5pm on Saturday. But we came out like kittens and completely allowed them to give us a collective reach around.

I've said before and will so again, and I couldn't give a <ovf censored> if not one single person agrees. But along with the obvious problem, for me we're too lightweight in midfield. We'll get away with it some games, but Conlon, Pett and Garrity have little to no physical presence between them. They look great when we're on top in games, but when we have to battle they are going to be found wanting more often than not. Absolutely nothing to do with a lack of effort, just a lack of size. For me, we need Walker in front of the defence and then we can choose Conlon and then the other from Pett, Garrity and Taylor in a 4-3-3.

I love Clarke, but if he picks the same formation on Saturday at home to Hartlepool he needs sectioning.

Edited by Beech

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16 minutes ago, Breadwinner said:

Conlon was very poor all game for me he was the worst player on the pitch ,never got involved in the game ,HID as did others but he is the captain and its job to lead by example .
Say whatever you want about Garrity and Pett at least they were tackling and working there socks off even if on the ball they were not at there best.
I do not see what the big deal is with Conlon .
 

Technically he's our best player when he's at it. But I do agree that he has a tendency to go missing in games at times. But then again, that's why he plays at League Two level. He looks brilliant when we're on top in games and we're at it. But when we're struggling he needs to step up more than he does, as Captain and one of our better players.

I raved about Conlon to a Walsall fan before the game... That ended well.

Edited by Beech
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No idea why there’s so much focus on formations, Gibbo. Wozza.  Simply if we keep turning the ball over in open play when under no pressure we are then defending.  Formations don’t come into it, Gibbo, Wozza are forced to come back, along with the other 10 outfield players. It’s not the odd bad pass costing us, it’s a glut of errors.  Play whatever formation and personnel you like and it won’t change anything until we cut out the mistakes.

Players need to go back to doing the basics right and results will follow.

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2 hours ago, bomber said:

The last two performances have been worrying to say the least. How can this suddenly happen ? I just hope we can turn this around quickly. So dissapointed with last night's attitude and comitment enough said.

 

90% of the Oldham game was nothing to worry about at all. We looked great, albeit against a very poor side. Yesterday was absolutely shocking though, but at least Clarke isn't deluded and could see exactly the same as everybody else.

But if we don't react properly against Hartlepool this weekend then it's seriously concerning.

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2 minutes ago, Guitar Ray said:

No idea why there’s so much focus on formations, Gibbo. Wozza.  Simply if we keep turning the ball over in open play when under no pressure we are then defending.  Formations don’t come into it, Gibbo, Wozza are forced to come back, along with the other 10 outfield players. It’s not the odd bad pass costing us, it’s a glut of errors.  Play whatever formation and personnel you like and it won’t change anything until we cut out the mistakes.

Players need to go back to doing the basics right and results will follow.

If your wing-backs gets pushed back or are dealt with the this 5-3-2 formation can become very negative, especially at home. Stop them and you stop us, unless Conlon something great.

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Technically he's our best player when he's at it. But I do agree that he has a tendency to go missing in games at times. But then again, that's why he plays at League Two level. He looks brilliant when we're on top in games and we're at it. But when we're struggling he needs to step up more than he does, as Captain and one of our better players.
I raved about Conlon to a Walsall fan before the game... That ended well.
No good being technically being our best player if you do not show it he seems do it away but rarely does it at home
Hope DCs watched the game back fancy the players playing like that to humiliate your own boss in front of a home crowd who were aghast with what they were being subjected too .
It's no good having Tom Conlons great collection of goals in a midtable side who never go anywhere .
I'd prefer someone who doesn't score but leads the club to promotion with great leadership .
It's usually in home matches Worrall or Gibbons who get the home crowd going not highly rated Conlon .

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13 minutes ago, Beech said:

 

We did. But the others players knew they had to up the effort to stay in the game. And I think Walsall felt well enough in control to be content with what they had.

Walsall simply wanted it more than us, and that's the sickener. Why is that? Why weren't we enraged at what happened on Saturday - The players should have been chomping at the bit and raring to go from 5pm on Saturday. But we came out like kittens and completely allowed them to give us a collective reach around.

I've said before and will so again, and I couldn't give a <ovf censored> if not one single person agrees. But along with the obvious problem, for me we're too lightweight in midfield. We'll get away with it some games, but Conlon, Pett and Garrity have little to no physical presence between them. They look great when we're on top in games, but when we have to battle they are going to be found wanting more often than not. Absolutely nothing to do with a lack of effort, just a lack of size. For me, we need Walker in front of the defence and then we can choose Conlon and then the other from Pett, Garrity and Taylor in a 4-3-3.

I love Clarke, but if he picks the same formation on Saturday at home to Hartlepool he needs sectioning.

The start of your second paragraph is absolutely on the money! They did want it more and that was inexplicable after Saturday. They should have been tearing the walls down in the changing room having built up a head of steam since 5.00pm Saturday. We came out and lay down and had our bellies tickled.....after 15 minutes it was obvious there was only going to be one winner. We had no stomach for the fight and looked like we thought we were better than this lot , just play. You have to fight and battle to earn that right to play your football and we were not interested. Add to that the lack of all the bog standard basics like passing and controlling and we were always on a loser.

At least Clarkey saw the same and he will get a reaction....we hope!

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46 minutes ago, Guitar Ray said:

No idea why there’s so much focus on formations, Gibbo. Wozza.  Simply if we keep turning the ball over in open play when under no pressure we are then defending.  Formations don’t come into it, Gibbo, Wozza are forced to come back, along with the other 10 outfield players. It’s not the odd bad pass costing us, it’s a glut of errors.  Play whatever formation and personnel you like and it won’t change anything until we cut out the mistakes.

Players need to go back to doing the basics right and results will follow.

Formation clearly plays a big part in it. They stopped our formation from working as have numerous teams. In a 352 it’s key that the wing backs are as high as possible, if they’re pushed back it becomes 532 and we just invite pressure as per last night. Mistakes are huge I agree. But we were never going to win with the way we (and they) set up. 

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4 hours ago, Iron Curtain said:

Woeful performance ... Players need a kick up the backside which I'm sure they are getting listening to DCs post match interview.

Hopefully no one expected us to win or draw every game all through the season and as DC keeps saying, football is a tough game and there will be bad patches throughout the season.

Stick with the lads... get behind the club and let's put it right on Saturday.

 

As an aside.... who remembers the following list of results:

Port Vale 0 - 1 Morcambe

Torquay 0 - 1 Port Vale

Port Vale 0 - 2 Exeter

Oxford 2 - 1 Port Vale

Port Vale 0 - 0 Bradford

Port Vale 1 - 2 Southend

Bristol Rovers 2 - 0 Port Vale

LWLLDLL - 4 points from 21 (1 point from the last 15 available in that run)

 

That's our 2012-13 Promotion season... AFTER we had made a bunch of Jan signings

Don't get caught up in short termism.

UTV

 

As an addition to this... and I pinched this off someone on facebook.

Whose 7 game run was this last year?

Drew with Salford

Lost to Bolton

Lost to Barrow

Drew with Stevenage

Drew with Colchester

Drew with Bolton

Drew with Newport

DLLDDDD

That was Champions Cheltenham

 

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And another

Lost to Port Vale

Lost to Walsall

Beat Cheltenham

Drew with Carlisle

Lost to Crawley

Drew with Exeter

Drew with Cheltenham

Lost to Tranmere

LLWLDLDDL 6 points from 27

That's Promoted Bolton MID-SEASON... I didn't even consider the fact they lost 4 and drew 3 of their first 8 games!!

Edited by Iron Curtain

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1 hour ago, The French Connection said:

Time to switch off from the Vale till the weekend. After 57years supporting them you'd think I'd get used to it.  But I haven't. 😬

Same here. Went to sleep thinking about it. Woke up thinking about it. Mostly trying to think what we should do to get out of this slump, why we always seem to crumble when it matters, how we can get behind the lads on Saturday even after the anger, disbelief and let down of last night.

It's in the blood and we connor help it.

Edited by CambridgeDon
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Final one

Drew with Barrow

Drew with Cheltenham

Lost to Mansfield

Lost to Oldham

Lost to Forest Green

Won at Colchester

Lost at Bradford

DDLLLWL - 1 win in 7 and 5 points from 21

That's the other promoted team Cambridge

 

The point here is that seasons are long, hared and there will be sticky patches. 

Its about how the team and manager handle these bumps.

 

Don't lose your heads, don't be short termist. Back the boys.

 

UTV

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Iron Curtain said:

As an addition to this... and I pinched this off someone on facebook.

Whose 7 game run was this last year?

Drew with Salford

Lost to Bolton

Lost to Barrow

Drew with Stevenage

Drew with Colchester

Drew with Bolton

Drew with Newport

DLLDDDD

That was Champions Cheltenham

 

If anyone honestly expected the results/level of performance from Swindon on 11th September and Bradford on the 13th November to continue on a consistent basis, then they haven't watched much lower league football. A regression was absolutely inevitable.

As you accurately state, every team have really poor runs of form in a 46 game season. We had two in 12/13. The performance last night was atrocious but losing two games in a row is no mortal wound.

We've been really good far more often than we've been bad. I hope we scrape something on Saturday, otherwise we veer into 'crisis' territory where everyone's head falls off. Clarke has been through far tougher than this.

Edited by Joe B
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1 hour ago, Beech said:

 

We did. But the others players knew they had to up the effort to stay in the game. And I think Walsall felt well enough in control to be content with what they had.

Walsall simply wanted it more than us, and that's the sickener. Why is that? Why weren't we enraged at what happened on Saturday - The players should have been chomping at the bit and raring to go from 5pm on Saturday. But we came out like kittens and completely allowed them to give us a collective reach around.

I've said before and will so again, and I couldn't give a <ovf censored> if not one single person agrees. But along with the obvious problem, for me we're too lightweight in midfield. We'll get away with it some games, but Conlon, Pett and Garrity have little to no physical presence between them. They look great when we're on top in games, but when we have to battle they are going to be found wanting more often than not. Absolutely nothing to do with a lack of effort, just a lack of size. For me, we need Walker in front of the defence and then we can choose Conlon and then the other from Pett, Garrity and Taylor in a 4-3-3.

I love Clarke, but if he picks the same formation on Saturday at home to Hartlepool he needs sectioning.

It's not just in midfield. We're light at the back and, when Proctor is out, light up top but the infuriating thing is that we have some muscle - and football - on the bench. This is League 2, we're not in League 1 yet, and while we're here we have to learn to match scrubbers like Walsall on the pitch.

And you're right about the formation too. We can't turn up again with 352 against another team like Hartlepool who will know exactly what to do to beat us, nailed on. Not arguing to abandon 352 but when it's as plain as your face that we've been sussed, we have to change it. Askey couldn't do it, DC can and let's hope he does.

Starting Saturday.

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4 hours ago, valiant_593 said:

Team were atrocious first half granted. But we were set up completely wrong and once again predictable.

I think thats the issue. We have become predictable which really surprises me given the fluidity of the formation and personnel earlier in the season. I thought this was our big strength this season and why I had confidence in the squad to do well. Granted we are short up front with Proc and Wils limiting our options but when we are on a roll teams looked at our line up and really didn't know how we would play. It was the same last year during our winning run at the back of the season.

Now its easy to see how we will play 1 hour before kick off.

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