Match Thread: Oldham Athletic v Port Vale

[NellyTheValiant]

5 minutes ago, Joe B said:

Walker looked very good before his injury. Excellent passer.

He did but he often got caught out when their midfield broke on us, he gave away sometimes needless fouls and got himself carded for pulling players back, I think on one occasion just outside their own box.

[Shropshire_Valiant]

Just had a look at the goals(conceded again) some real comic cuts defending there.  Their 2nd is basically caused by the first header which goes back into our box instead of out and we still have a couple more chances to clear it before it ends up in the net. 

Really not sure what Martin is trying to achieve for the winner, it looks a committed effort and perhaps rotten bad luck, but would it have caused as big a problem had he not thrown himself at it and it went past him, I'm not sure?  Obviously easy to be wise after it's happened it just doesn't look very good or professional for either goal.

We need to learn and fast from games like this.

[philmpv]

There's definitely something in this manager of the month curse.

[PV1973]

29 minutes ago, Shropshire_Valiant said:

Just had a look at the goals(conceded again) some real comic cuts defending there.  Their 2nd is basically caused by the first header which goes back into our box instead of out and we still have a couple more chances to clear it before it ends up in the net. 

Really not sure what Martin is trying to achieve for the winner, it looks a committed effort and perhaps rotten bad luck, but would it have caused as big a problem had he not thrown himself at it and it went past him, I'm not sure?  Obviously easy to be wise after it's happened it just doesn't look very good or professional for either goal.

We need to learn and fast from games like this.

In the first half Martin tried a similar clearance and managed to divert it up and over the bar. For the OG he’s got to go for it as a defender, if he’d left it he’d of got crucified for that. 

[philmpv]

Can't believe the grief that Martin is getting. Got a new scapegoat have we? Legge was arguably to blame for both of their late goals yet nobody has a word to say about Saint Leon aka Baresi

[Port Vale Paul]

12 minutes ago, philmpv said:

Can't believe the grief that Martin is getting. Got a new scapegoat have we? Legge was arguably to blame for both of their late goals yet nobody has a word to say about that

It was also Legge who gave away the needless freekick for the 3rd.

[philmpv]

It was also Legge who gave away the needless freekick for the 3rd.

Precisely. And it was a stupid and needless free kick to give away. Not just blaming him, as they all need to defend better from set pieces, it's just aggravating me that Martins getting all of this flak, when up to the 80th minute, they'd barely had a sniff.

[Joe B]

I can understand what Martin was trying to do - there is a man behind him and if the ball isn't cut out it's a tap in. He makes an instinctive decision and it happens to fly in the one place we didn't want it to. It happens.

There does seem a tendency to attack individuals for issues - the goals on Saturday were the result of a litany of mistakes; a failure to clear lines properly (like Smith v Bradford), a failure to win the cliched 'second ball', people losing their markers (Cass for the first goal). Everyone, including my beloved Lucas, plays a part in the failure to defend goals like Saturdays. It was a group failure.

It's very easy and sometimes gratifying to say 'Martin, worse centre half in 50 years, all his fault', because he's the fella who's launched it into the top corner, but if Legge doesn't give away the free kick, if any of the three attempted clearances by Legge, Legge + Rodney, and Gibbons actually clear the ball, if Taylor throws his body in front of the shot instead of sticking his foot in and turning his back, Martin doesn't need to make a snap decision to throw his head at the ball to stop the man behind from scoring.

Alas; Martin's fault. Worst I've seen.

 

[valiant_593]

I’m not blaming Martin for the OG they happen and as above the free kick wasn’t his fault. I just thought he had a very poor game as a whole, as did cass. Both of them and Rodney to be dropped tomorrow for me. Legge smith and politic into the side. If playing 352 I’d be tempted to give Johnson another go, he looked hopeless last time i saw him but by all accounts was decent last season, add some height into that back line. 

[Paul6754]

We can point fingers but at the end of the day Vale have a problem with long balls into the box and it has to be sorted, every club in Lge 2 will be aware of it.

Vale comparatively don't appear to have much height in the team and with Proctor out injured that's one less tall guy back to defend at set pieces/corners. 

The first goal was rank poor defending.  For the last two goals everything went Oldham's way, the blocks, the deflections all fell kindly for them. For their 3rd Legge did win the ball under pressure from one of their players, he did get out for the block and partially blocked it, Taylor did get a block on the ball in the next phase and it was going wide 'til Martin's split second reaction diverted it.

The decision to award Oldham the free kick that led to the 3rd goal was harsh on Vale as the challenge between Legge and Piergianni was 6 of one and half a dozen of the other, usually they go the defending teams way.

Piergianni turned the game and won it for Oldham, damn frustrating.

 

[hamilboy]

3 hours ago, Joe B said:

I can understand what Martin was trying to do - there is a man behind him and if the ball isn't cut out it's a tap in. He makes an instinctive decision and it happens to fly in the one place we didn't want it to. It happens.

There does seem a tendency to attack individuals for issues - the goals on Saturday were the result of a litany of mistakes; a failure to clear lines properly (like Smith v Bradford), a failure to win the cliched 'second ball', people losing their markers (Cass for the first goal). Everyone, including my beloved Lucas, plays a part in the failure to defend goals like Saturdays. It was a group failure.

It's very easy and sometimes gratifying to say 'Martin, worse centre half in 50 years, all his fault', because he's the fella who's launched it into the top corner, but if Legge doesn't give away the free kick, if any of the three attempted clearances by Legge, Legge + Rodney, and Gibbons actually clear the ball, if Taylor throws his body in front of the shot instead of sticking his foot in and turning his back, Martin doesn't need to make a snap decision to throw his head at the ball to stop the man behind from scoring.

Alas; Martin's fault. Worst I've seen.

 

this is the last word i'm saying on the Martin debate he is there to be the dominating figure in the back 3 system with his size and experience on saturday he failed against Rochdale at home he failed his only job he has to do is either head the ball out or at least challenge for the first goal neither happened for the Rochdale goals the same happened.

[Bycarsbill]

On 20/11/2021 at 17:40, PVFC764 said:

Having supported Vale for 47 years have seen the Vale do this numerous times each season.  We normally self destruct several times during a season against a side we should be winning.

Good interview with DC and glad he thanked/apologised to the fans for not going home with 3 points. He takes no prisoners when the commentator miss quoted him as well.

See what side he turns out on tuesday and can only see the players having some quiet words from DC and Co at this moment.  

But we keep giving away late, late goals to the opposition and don't seem to learn from these slip-ups.  Ultimately it is down to DC and his coaching staff to sort it.

[Joe B]

19 minutes ago, Bycarsbill said:

But we keep giving away late, late goals to the opposition and don't seem to learn from these slip-ups.  Ultimately it is down to DC and his coaching staff to sort it.

Twice in 17 games (23 in all competitions).

Bar the Sutton game, the latest we've conceded a result-altering goal is the 78th minute in the loss to Rochdale. It's barely happened, but when it's happened it's happened memorably, so everyone bangs on about it and labels it an endemic problem because the games in which we mercilessly swept aside Barrow, Crawley, and Colchester have been forgotten due to their lack of drama. That's my theory, as I can't grasp why everyone is losing their heads over something which has barely happened this season.

We did it to Orient and regularly score after the 80th minute (Crawley, Accrington, Barrow, FGR, one of the trophy games) but there doesn't seem to be any claims that we have a habit of scoring late.

[For Us All]

15 hours ago, Joe B said:

Twice in 17 games (23 in all competitions).

Bar the Sutton game, the latest we've conceded a result-altering goal is the 78th minute in the loss to Rochdale. It's barely happened, but when it's happened it's happened memorably, so everyone bangs on about it and labels it an endemic problem because the games in which we mercilessly swept aside Barrow, Crawley, and Colchester have been forgotten due to their lack of drama. That's my theory, as I can't grasp why everyone is losing their heads over something which has barely happened this season.

We did it to Orient and regularly score after the 80th minute (Crawley, Accrington, Barrow, FGR, one of the trophy games) but there doesn't seem to be any claims that we have a habit of scoring late.

We now have the worst record of any team in League Two after dropping 15 points from winning positions.

[Joe B]

34 minutes ago, For Us All said:

We now have the worst record of any team in League Two after dropping 15 points from winning positions.

A concern, but would be interested to see how many times we've got into winning positions, and how early. 

I'm not here saying that this team is perfect and without flaws; I'm saying that it's a League 2 team who will inevitably have weaknesses. Ours seems to be clearing lines when peppered with crosses late on. 

I'm of the view that we don't have many issues, and the ones that we do aren't as big of an issue as people argue.

I just don't like the solutions of 'sign a big man', as if you play said 'big man', something else gives. Maybe we aren't as comfortable playing the high line we have utilised for the most part. Maybe we aren't as good at bringing the ball out. 

To sum up - we're a good side and have done well with the players available to us. We have flaws but you can't have the perfect team. As a great philosopher once wrote; a problem solved is a problem caused.