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Match Thread: Sutton United v Port Vale


Fosse69

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20 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

Doesn't every keeper?  Look at Alisson  against Man City last season when he handed them the game yet he is supposed to be one of the best in the world.

Brown had some very ropey games for us last year and Visser had looked good in the Trophy games before his injury - I don't recall anyone demanding a change then but that was because Brown was a hero so couldn't be criticised.

It’s my personal view - Covolan gives me the jitters 

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Amazingly, we are still fourth in the table after that dismal performance, which shows how inconsistent this league is, and that's going to be the key for us if we're going to get promotion. Yesterday was appalling and no team with promotion in mind can continue to concede so many goals in the way we have and hope to go up. Hopefully DC will get this right just as he did last season, and for most of this, but he needs to tighten up very quickly or we will soon start to lose ground.

Sutton are a good example of the kind of unsophisticated football, based on pace and height, that we seem to have difficulty coping with. We just don't have the physicality in the team, either in midfield without Walker or in defence without Legge, to be able to match sides that inflict this type of game on us. We saw it at Northampton, Rochdale (where Beesley totally bullied our defence) and then yesterday. The reason people keep bemoaning Legge's absence is just a symptom of our lack of replacement for him. We just don't have anyone else that shows his level of aerial dominance, overpowering physicality and defensive strength who can combat the likes of Sutton and the rest. In this league, you not only have have to be able to out football your opponents you also have to be able to match them physically.

How long Legge will be out, we just don't know but, regardless, we should be looking to bring in someone of his ilk in the January window, just as Micky brought in Darren Purse in 2013 and shored up our defence when McCombe got injured. 17 games later we were up.

Yesterday is gone - it's how we respond that matters and Barrow will be a key test for us. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, rayzer said:

I think the main reason we lost this game was because of Darrel's tactics. Not the playing tactics because by and large we have played some great stuff this season with plenty of cracking goals. It is his tactics of having the players time wasting from the very first minute. Yesterday I thought the ref was decent in the first half on most of his decisions but was being intimidated by Sutton's players and fans about the time wast ing from about five minutes in , which is ridiculous. The ref booked three of our players for time wasting and I honestly think he was exasperated by this and the ear bashing about it from Sutton. I think this is why, unconsciously, he favoured the home team with his decisions in the second half, which ended up costing the game.

I am sure refs are getting wise to our "gamesmanship" which could eventually cost us a top three place if we end up losing players for totting up offences, so please DC play on the front foot as this Vale team look capable of beating teams with the brand of football you play which is much more pleasing than seeing our players pretend to take a throw in and then leave it for someone else and also seeing you goalkeeper going down as though he has been shot in the leg , only to get up and use that same leg to kick the ball 100yards.

So Sutton didn't beat Vale yesterday, Vale beat Vale yesterday. Such a shame in front of so many travelling fans.

The same gamesmanship secured us wins vs Scunthorpe and Swindon. Live by the sword, die by the sword. 

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I'm not as keen as others to write off Aaron Martin. He was awful against Rochdale but outstanding against Forest Green up against Matt. He's got decent pedigree at League 2. If he's in the team, arguably some of those crosses yesterday are dealt with. Legge being back will be great but Martin being back before then will provide some aerial presence we have lacked. 

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One consistent theme throughout the season is that we're excellent for portions of games and not good enough in other portions. Sometimes, we score in the good bits and see out the game (Forest Green) and others we score in the good bits and fail to see out the game (Sutton).

I'm not sure if its intentional from DC or just a strange quirk of our approach/mentality. We do have to work on preserving leads as the last two games have seen us chuck them away after dominating the opening spell. Lucas' decision making does need work, but you can argue that yesterday was the first direct mistake that led to a goal all season, and his first major balls up since Northampton.

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I’d put Martin in against Barrow. What does it say to him if the team can concede 4 <ovf censored> goals and then play the same team again next week? The point of having a strong squad is to rotate when something needs changing. Martin and Smith together at the back, 433.

Barrow, Harrogate, Sutton, they’re all the same in different kits.

Get the ball down and play, but remember to head it away. Job done.

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10 minutes ago, 1 said:

I’d put Martin in against Barrow. What does it say to him if the team can concede 4 <ovf censored> goals and then play the same team again next week? The point of having a strong squad is to rotate when something needs changing. Martin and Smith together at the back, 433.

Barrow, Harrogate, Sutton, they’re all the same in different kits.

Get the ball down and play, but remember to head it away. Job done.

I'm sure he's injured mate as he wasn't even in the squad for the tinpot v Rochdale 

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1 hour ago, CambridgeDon said:

Amazingly, we are still fourth in the table after that dismal performance, which shows how inconsistent this league is, and that's going to be the key for us if we're going to get promotion. Yesterday was appalling and no team with promotion in mind can continue to concede so many goals in the way we have and hope to go up. Hopefully DC will get this right just as he did last season, and for most of this, but he needs to tighten up very quickly or we will soon start to lose ground.

Sutton are a good example of the kind of unsophisticated football, based on pace and height, that we seem to have difficulty coping with. We just don't have the physicality in the team, either in midfield without Walker or in defence without Legge, to be able to match sides that inflict this type of game on us. We saw it at Northampton, Rochdale (where Beesley totally bullied our defence) and then yesterday. The reason people keep bemoaning Legge's absence is just a symptom of our lack of replacement for him. We just don't have anyone else that shows his level of aerial dominance, overpowering physicality and defensive strength who can combat the likes of Sutton and the rest. In this league, you not only have have to be able to out football your opponents you also have to be able to match them physically.

How long Legge will be out, we just don't know but, regardless, we should be looking to bring in someone of his ilk in the January window, just as Micky brought in Darren Purse in 2013 and shored up our defence when McCombe got injured. 17 games later we were up.

Yesterday is gone - it's how we respond that matters and Barrow will be a key test for us. 

 

 

 

Isn't Martin ultimately supposed to be Legg's replacement? I don't think many expected Legge to still be a guaranteed starter every week at the start of the season. But from what bit he's played, Martin hasn't exactly shown himself to be a replacement for him yet.

Our side yesterday lacked height. They were giants in comparison to us and we paid the price for that, because launching balls into the box got them back into the game. Had they tried to keep the ball on the deck we would have murdered them. Sadly there's more than one way to win a football game.

Edited by Beech
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There is one thing for certain you are going to find it very difficult to football your way out of this division. It’s all about height and pumping long balls into the box, we did not press enough yesterday to stop the barrage of long balls. Yesterday is a little reality check hope we can learn from it and push on, not too despondent but Barrow will be a good yard stick.

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29 minutes ago, Beech said:

 

Isn't Martin ultimately supposed to be Legg's replacement? I don't think many expected Legge to still be a guaranteed starter every week at the start of the season. But from what bit he's played, Martin hasn't exactly shown himself to be a replacement for him yet.

Our side yesterday lacked height. They were giants in comparison to us and we paid the price for that, because launching balls into the box got them back into the game. Had they tried to keep the ball on the deck we would have murdered them. Sadly there's more than one way to win a football game.

Yes, he is supposed to be Legge's replacement but, as you say, he hasn't exactly showed himself to a replacement for him yet with poor games at Northampton and Rochdale. It would, of course, be foolish to write Martin off at this stage and I, for one, hope he comes good. Regardless of this, yesterday shows imho that we need another dominant CB in the Legge/Purse/Swan/Hazel/Sproson mode if we are to stiffen our defence.

You're right that there are different ways to win a game and we need both - physicality and finesse and we're clearly not there yet. It crossed my mind yesterday whether I'd be confident if we came across Sutton in the play-offs now that they're in the top seven. Over two games, yes; over one, not at the moment though I don't think they'll catch us on the hop again like they did yesterday. 

We are making good progress overall but we are still that - a work in progress.

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1 hour ago, Jacko51 said:

Re their celebration after the final goal.  The Laws clearly state that "A player must be cautioned, even if the goal is disallowed, for:

climbing onto a perimeter fence and/or approaching the spectators in
a manner which causes safety and/or security issues
• acting in a provocative, derisory or inflammatory way"

Their whole team should have been yellow carded!!

Absolutely.  The police actually just stood there and clearly saw their players goading the fans and what could be described as inciting them. They should have spoken to the ref, who also was totally pathetic in doing diddley squat with the Sutton players who were a disgrace to their Club.  It's always easy to blame fans for "having a go at players" but there is NO place in football for idiot, irresponsible players in running to opposing fans and inciting trouble.

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2 hours ago, Jacko51 said:

Re their celebration after the final goal.  The Laws clearly state that "A player must be cautioned, even if the goal is disallowed, for:

climbing onto a perimeter fence and/or approaching the spectators in
a manner which causes safety and/or security issues
• acting in a provocative, derisory or inflammatory way"

Their whole team should have been yellow carded!!

 

They were lucky they all weren't lamped! Wouldn't recommend it though, seeing as most of them were about 6'4 or built like a brick shithouse.

I'm all for players giving it back to fans to an extent but some of them definitely over-stepped the mark, and especially when they were just feet away from our supporters. Could have turned into a nasty situation. 

Edited by Beech

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2 hours ago, CambridgeDon said:

Yes, he is supposed to be Legge's replacement but, as you say, he hasn't exactly showed himself to a replacement for him yet with poor games at Northampton and Rochdale. It would, of course, be foolish to write Martin off at this stage and I, for one, hope he comes good. Regardless of this, yesterday shows imho that we need another dominant CB in the Legge/Purse/Swan/Hazel/Sproson mode if we are to stiffen our defence.

You're right that there are different ways to win a game and we need both - physicality and finesse and we're clearly not there yet. It crossed my mind yesterday whether I'd be confident if we came across Sutton in the play-offs now that they're in the top seven. Over two games, yes; over one, not at the moment though I don't think they'll catch us on the hop again like they did yesterday. 

We are making good progress overall but we are still that - a work in progress.

 

We'll give them a spanking at Vale Park if we play how we're capable, on a much wider and bigger pitch. But they are going to be a big problem for any side in this league on their own turf. What they do is pretty basic stuff but if you're not a big team yourself you're going to have problems.

But you're not going to just football your way out of League Two so we need Legge back in the side asap, or for Martin to step up. I also want to see Walker back in the side to sit in front of that defence, though it means dropping Garrity or Pett.

Edited by Beech

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2 hours ago, Jacko51 said:

Re their celebration after the final goal.  The Laws clearly state that "A player must be cautioned, even if the goal is disallowed, for:

climbing onto a perimeter fence and/or approaching the spectators in
a manner which causes safety and/or security issues
• acting in a provocative, derisory or inflammatory way"

Their whole team should have been yellow carded!!

Report the video highlights package to the football League of where there players celebrate Infront of our fans inciting a reaction and see if anything gets done or said about it. Swindon fans reported Rodney for that elbow or whatever it was and he ended up with a 3 game ban.

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Their keeper must have a fair sprint in him to pop up out of nowhere and start goading us.

After Smith and Vigoroux had a go at us during the game last week, we must be living rent free in quite a few League Two players’ heads.

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