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Booing your own players.. Political


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3 minutes ago, Joe B said:

It's this outlook that, if it doesn't solve racism in the short-term, it is pointless and shouldn't be done that confuses me. 

You seem to think it's pointless; cool. Do you boo everything you deem pointless? Do you boo wasps? If your only issue with it is a tenuous link to 'Critical Race Theory' and 'it doesn't fix racism', then why boo?

You may have an issue with the origins of the knee, but its difficult to imagine David Worrall and James Gibbons are doing it for that reason. They're Port Vale players, kneeling because racism is still happening in football and they want to show their support for their colleagues. They're not solving racism, no, I agree, but they really don't need to be booed pre-game for it. 

 

 

That's not quite what I believe to be true Joe. It  is pointless, but you also have no evidence that it's not having the opposite effect. 

 

The likes of David Worrall and Gibbons don't really have a choice do they? Next saturday if Worrall decides to not take a knee do you seriously think everyone will say "yeah fair enough that's his opinion and he's taken a knee for weeks now so he's obviously not a racist" or will they say "OMGSRMSFMS RACISFMSDMSDFJ"""""!"!"!"

 

If it was so virtuous then supporters of it wouldn't need to force compliance by telling lies about the origins, by dishonestly ascribing motives to opposition, and by trying to redefine racism as not even requiring racism. You can literally be racist now without discriminating against someone based on race. Even the "systems" of society are racist, so not only do you not even need racism to be racist, you don't even need people. That's insane isn't it?

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1 hour ago, Regal Beagle said:

That's not quite what I believe to be true Joe. It  is pointless, but you also have no evidence that it's not having the opposite effect. 

 

The likes of David Worrall and Gibbons don't really have a choice do they? Next saturday if Worrall decides to not take a knee do you seriously think everyone will say "yeah fair enough that's his opinion and he's taken a knee for weeks now so he's obviously not a racist" or will they say "OMGSRMSFMS RACISFMSDMSDFJ"""""!"!"!"

 

If it was so virtuous then supporters of it wouldn't need to force compliance by telling lies about the origins, by dishonestly ascribing motives to opposition, and by trying to redefine racism as not even requiring racism. You can literally be racist now without discriminating against someone based on race. Even the "systems" of society are racist, so not only do you not even need racism to be racist, you don't even need people. That's insane isn't it?

Loads of footballers are not kneeling when their team is (Zaha, Lyle Taylor). Loads of teams haven't knelt/no longer kneel. Vale haven't on occasion this season. There wasn't a stir of dissent. You've invented something to get angry about. 

You seem to have an issue with the broader definitions of racism as opposed to Port Vale players kneeling. That's your view, but I still don't get why you think booing the players is needed.

You're projecting some frustration/anger about how the issue of racism is being treated in Western society at large, and it's revealing itself in this apparent disgust of what is a very innocent and simple gesture undertaken by Port Vale players who aren't thinking about Critical Race Theory, but merely about backing their colleagues. Not everything has to be ascribed as 'woke leftism cancel culture postmodern cultural marxism', despite what the grifters on Youtube say.

Edited by Joe B
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1 hour ago, geosname said:

People make a choice to take the knee. People who react make a choice to do so.

If you can respect one choice is it difficult to respect the other? Even if you dont agree with it it's their right to choose it.

Only people who are resiliently racist would boo anyone taking a knee... simple as that.

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13 hours ago, geosname said:

People make a choice to take the knee. People who react make a choice to do so.

If you can respect one choice is it difficult to respect the other? Even if you dont agree with it it's their right to choose it.

It's their right, I just think it's a bit strange. The choice to boo doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

They think it's pointless, so they boo it. There's a load of pointless stuff in the world. Do they boo everything they think is pointless, or just this? Do they boo wasps, or Gavin Williamson, or James Corden?

The booing suggests some other issue with it, bar it 'it doesn't fix racism!' (which isn't an issue anyway). People seem to have larger issues with the idea of the knee, and then have to do backflips and cartwheels through hoops to link David Worrall to Critical Race Theory to justify it, so that their booing of the knee isn't viewed for what it is; booing an anti-racist gesture as these people are angry at other anti-racist gestures in the world. Port Vale players get booed because these people can't separate what they're doing from other anti-racist movements.

That's my problem. 

Edited by Joe B
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The argument of 'it won't solve racism' is a very easy argument to silence any movement that is utilised to show support for something.

It's the whole 'virtue signalling/woke' frenzy that a few lads, who conveniently all have the same political opinions and watch the same people on Youtube, are obsessed with. 

You aren't allowed to show anger at something if you're not going to fix it, in this view, even if you don't have the power to do so. If you can't solve it, you can't be angry/show anger. You're not allowed to make the point publicly that you're unhappy with something, as then you are signalling virtue, and this is awful. You must become an activist to be unhappy with a cause. Even if you work full-time with a family; you can't be angry about an injustice unless you become an activist. Otherwise, you're signalling virtue, and what could be worse?

It's a really easy 'shutdown' argument if anyone ever criticises anything; if you don't solve it, don't complain about it, even if it is impossible for the people in question to do anything concrete. 

Edited by Joe B
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On 05/10/2021 at 12:43, Joe B said:

Loads of footballers are not kneeling when their team is (Zaha, Lyle Taylor). Loads of teams haven't knelt/no longer kneel. Vale haven't on occasion this season. There wasn't a stir of dissent. You've invented something to get angry about. 

You seem to have an issue with the broader definitions of racism as opposed to Port Vale players kneeling. That's your view, but I still don't get why you think booing the players is needed.

You're projecting some frustration/anger about how the issue of racism is being treated in Western society at large, and it's revealing itself in this apparent disgust of what is a very innocent and simple gesture undertaken by Port Vale players who aren't thinking about Critical Race Theory, but merely about backing their colleagues. Not everything has to be ascribed as 'woke leftism cancel culture postmodern cultural marxism', despite what the grifters on Youtube say.

Loads of footballers - you've named 2 black players. I've not invented anything and the only thing I'm angry about is the dishonesty. The ones who say that the booing of the action of taking a knee is racist, are quite literally inventing things to be angry about. Because there's not enough racism to quench their thirst. They have to make more racism and they do it by broadening the definition so that you don't even have to hold any opinion about another race at all. You just have to audibly counter protest a supposed racism protest.

 

I've never said booing is needed. I've never booed when any team has taken a knee. I don't like it. I think less of them for doing it and the reason for that is that I can see real racial divisions being opened up as a result. I honestly believe it will do more harm than good and I honestly believe that the whole thing started because of a lie. 

 

The ironic thing about you accusing me of projection is I'm saying that the racism that is supposedly the issue in this thread, doesn't exist. I'm literally projecting my non-racism on to others. If that is true, then what are you projecting?

 

You've tried to move the goalposts a bit with your post. Anything to avoid answering how it can be that one group of people has the right to simply assert that they are right and then impost their own bad faith interpreted intentions on another group. This is about whether booing the gesture is justified. There's one answer to that, of course it is. You've heard the reasons why they boo, not one person has so much as hinted at booing the knee because they a pro-racism somehow?! It makes no sense. You can disagree, I can disagree with you. But it's very suspicious that when I accuse this "movement" of being about power, we end up with people wanted the booers to be racist so that they can justify banning them from stadiums.

 

It doesn't matter where you listen to your grifters. You are still being lied to. There's money to be made out of racism being kept alive. It's really quite sickening when you start patching the many examples of it together.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Regal Beagle said:

Loads of footballers - you've named 2 black players. I've not invented anything and the only thing I'm angry about is the dishonesty. The ones who say that the booing of the action of taking a knee is racist, are quite literally inventing things to be angry about. Because there's not enough racism to quench their thirst. They have to make more racism and they do it by broadening the definition so that you don't even have to hold any opinion about another race at all. You just have to audibly counter protest a supposed racism protest.

 

I've never said booing is needed. I've never booed when any team has taken a knee. I don't like it. I think less of them for doing it and the reason for that is that I can see real racial divisions being opened up as a result. I honestly believe it will do more harm than good and I honestly believe that the whole thing started because of a lie. 

 

The ironic thing about you accusing me of projection is I'm saying that the racism that is supposedly the issue in this thread, doesn't exist. I'm literally projecting my non-racism on to others. If that is true, then what are you projecting?

 

You've tried to move the goalposts a bit with your post. Anything to avoid answering how it can be that one group of people has the right to simply assert that they are right and then impost their own bad faith interpreted intentions on another group. This is about whether booing the gesture is justified. There's one answer to that, of course it is. You've heard the reasons why they boo, not one person has so much as hinted at booing the knee because they a pro-racism somehow?! It makes no sense. You can disagree, I can disagree with you. But it's very suspicious that when I accuse this "movement" of being about power, we end up with people wanted the booers to be racist so that they can justify banning them from stadiums.

 

It doesn't matter where you listen to your grifters. You are still being lied to. There's money to be made out of racism being kept alive. It's really quite sickening when you start patching the many examples of it together.

 

 

You're deep into the rabbit hole at this stage, mate. This is too rambling/confusing of a post/argument to properly deal with as you leap from theory to theory. You seem to think that 'racism' is created by anti-racist movements/people in order to profit? If that's your opinion, that's fine, but its not a theory I can be bothered to delve into over my lunch.

I haven't accused those booing of racism, just confusing as to why they feel the need; pointlessness isn't enough, and I simply can't see a concrete link between Marxism/Critical Race Theory and what Port Vale players do pre-game. I suppose if they subscribe to your theory of concocted racism for profit/division, then sure, but I simply don't agree with it. If your argument is that it causes division, then the only people being divided by it are those booing it, which brings us back to square one; why?

Edited by Joe B

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3 hours ago, mr.hobblesworth said:

There you go Davebrad. See those scumbags in the crowd at Wembley last night? The ones who, like you, boo players who take the knee? That's you, that is. That's who's on your side. That's who you choose to stand with.

Are you feeling ok?

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7 hours ago, mr.hobblesworth said:

There you go Davebrad. See those scumbags in the crowd at Wembley last night? The ones who, like you, boo players who take the knee? That's you, that is. That's who's on your side. That's who you choose to stand with.

here you go again, damning everyone who does not agree with you, i follow my conviction and my right to protest what i don't believe, taking the knee/ black lives matter  has been taken over politically... i've said before i go to the Vale to support my team before during and after a match, but my protest is the 10 seconds my team  take their action,, because i disagree with them.
   Give me a honest answer how many players or whoever who take the knee do so because others are, and they don't want to be seen as not doing it...?
   When it became "the thing to do "in US football, those who did would not play in the game with those who didn't even during the game, even a quarter-back got shunned.
 its a personal choice, thats why for those 10secs i boo...they kneel, the players know that i/we boo not them but their action.
   So can a respectively say grow up everyone thankfully does not believe as you.
 

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Taking the knee is currently strongly associated with Colin kaepernick and/or the Black Live Matter movement, the former disrespectful to a country that has provided him with an opportunity to make a life for himself which is way beyond what most people could envisage and the latter a movement founded on a lie.  BLM is a Marxist organization which seeks to overturn the very way of life that most westerners enjoy, aims to disrupt and destroy the nuclear family which is the pillar of western society and to defund the Police, an organization which tries to maintain law and order without which there would be utter chaos on the streets.

There is absolutely no need to do contortions to understand what the BLM movement stands for as these goals/aims were written on their website. Once people read the website they  realized what BLM were about and the funding stopped coming in, hence these aims and goals have recently mostly been erased/changed.

People booing/not agreeing with the taking of the knee are booing hypocrisy and the aims of the BLM movement rather than any cause to do with racism.

If athletes must introduce politics into sport I wish they would have come up with a different gesture than taking the knee. Something like standing up and folding the arms for 30 secs, something not aligned with KP or the misleadingly titled BLM movement.

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3 minutes ago, Paul6754 said:

Taking the knee is currently strongly associated with Colin kaepernick and/or the Black Live Matter movement, the former disrespectful to a country that has provided him with an opportunity to make a life for himself which is way beyond what most people could envisage and the latter a movement founded on a lie.  BLM is a Marxist organization which seeks to overturn the very way of life that most westerners enjoy, aims to disrupt and destroy the nuclear family which is the pillar of western society and to defund the Police, an organization which tries to maintain law and order without which there would be utter chaos on the streets.

There is absolutely no need to do contortions to understand what the BLM movement stands for as these goals/aims were written on their website. Once people read the website they  realized what BLM were about and the funding stopped coming in, hence these aims and goals have recently mostly been erased/changed.

People booing/not agreeing with the taking of the knee are booing hypocrisy and the aims of the BLM movement rather than any cause to do with racism.

If athletes must introduce politics into sport I wish they would have come up with a different gesture than taking the knee. Something like standing up and folding the arms for 30 secs, something not aligned with KP or the misleadingly titled BLM movement.

Port Vale play in England,  what taking the knee stands for in the USA is  meaningless in Burslem except to political activists.

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It has been explained so many times that taking the knee by our players is and anti-discrimination gesture.  It's not just about fighting racism it is about anti-discrimination in all its forms.  It's nothing to do with BLM and I can't understand why people can't get their heads around that.

Can anyone tell me what this has to do with the movement known as Black Lives Matter?  Can anyone tell me how this medallion, produced before Marx was born, is Marxist??

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