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Booing your own players.. Political


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1 hour ago, Fosse69 said:

Two posts containing personal insults have been hidden for review by admin.

Calling someone braindead who boos his own team before kick off because he doesn't agree with standing against racism isn't a personal insult. Its a fact. Censor those that want to support their team over a guy who boos our team and is proud of it. Only at OVF!

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21 minutes ago, WV said:

Calling someone braindead who boos his own team before kick off because he doesn't agree with standing against racism isn't a personal insult. Its a fact. Censor those that want to support their team over a guy who boos our team and is proud of it. Only at OVF!

You seem to have a strange definition of facts. 

If the best argument you can raise against someone doing something you don't agree with is hurling abuse you have already lost the argument.

Free speech isn't about allowing the people you agree with to voice your opinion, it's more about allowing people you dont agree with to voice theirs.

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TBF, it's 'personal abuse' (although (and I stand to be corrected) I felt I was abusing the actions & behaviour) about booing our players pre-match rather than what BLM/ taking the knee stands for. I don't agree with minutes silences for royalty but I wouldn't boo our players for standing and showing respect, and would take being called moronic on the chin if I did so.

Don't recall the abusive comments about the guy who shouted an obscenity during the memorial service getting deleted for personal abuse, and I think this is far more similar to that than anything in the politics thread.

2 hours ago, Fosse69 said:

Two posts containing personal insults have been hidden for review by admin.

Does that mean they may be re-posted after a review?

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41 minutes ago, geosname said:

You seem to have a strange definition of facts. 

If the best argument you can raise against someone doing something you don't agree with is hurling abuse you have already lost the argument.

Free speech isn't about allowing the people you agree with to voice your opinion, it's more about allowing people you dont agree with to voice theirs.

Why did I bother clicking show Geosnames post? You have a strange definition of "hurling abuse" if you think that what was said was abuse. Also the old if the best argument is hurling abuse you lose the argument is <ovf censored> too. The "abuse" wasnt the argument and you know that but you cannot help but be a pedant. Back to not clicking that button in future as you are tiresome. Hopefully tiresome isn't seen as hurling abuse as that would be quite snowflakey wouldn't it. 

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26 minutes ago, mr.hobblesworth said:

TBF, it's 'personal abuse' (although (and I stand to be corrected) I felt I was abusing the actions & behaviour) about booing our players pre-match rather than what BLM/ taking the knee stands for. I don't agree with minutes silences for royalty but I wouldn't boo our players for standing and showing respect, and would take being called moronic on the chin if I did so.

Don't recall the abusive comments about the guy who shouted an obscenity during the memorial service getting deleted for personal abuse, and I think this is far more similar to that than anything in the politics thread.

Does that mean they may be re-posted after a review?

Don't be daft! That wouldn't be ok unlike booing your own players! I have been called worse than moronic and braindead on here but I didn't cry to the admin over it and ask for posts to be removed. 

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21 minutes ago, WV said:

Don't be daft! That wouldn't be ok unlike booing your own players! I have been called worse than moronic and braindead on here but I didn't cry to the admin over it and ask for posts to be removed. 

Am I surprised you have been called worse?

Haven't we all, doesn't make it right does it.

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I don't personally agree with the knee but if the players want to do it I am not going to boo them because in my eyes that's not what a supporter does before they've even kicked a ball. Oh come on we both know it'd be pointless doing it in the dressing room! The idea is to raise awareness about racism including in football. For me the social media boycott is a good idea. But what about remembrance day minute silences? Minute silences when someone passes away? Should we get rid of them because supporters just want to see football.
The knee takes how long? Why not turn away or close your eyes if it bothers you? It's hardly in your face. For starters nowadays the pitch is miles away from the stand! 
The mins silence on rememberence day.or when one of our fans has died is to show respect. The taking a knee is political.All lives mater so why qualify it with black...
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45 minutes ago, Davebrad said:
1 hour ago, ginge said:
I don't personally agree with the knee but if the players want to do it I am not going to boo them because in my eyes that's not what a supporter does before they've even kicked a ball. Oh come on we both know it'd be pointless doing it in the dressing room! The idea is to raise awareness about racism including in football. For me the social media boycott is a good idea. But what about remembrance day minute silences? Minute silences when someone passes away? Should we get rid of them because supporters just want to see football.
The knee takes how long? Why not turn away or close your eyes if it bothers you? It's hardly in your face. For starters nowadays the pitch is miles away from the stand! 

The mins silence on rememberence day.or when one of our fans has died is to show respect. The taking a knee is political.All lives mater so why qualify it with black...

You can't talk about respect when you boo our players before they've kicked a ball

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11 minutes ago, ginge said:

You can't talk about respect when you boo our players before they've kicked a ball

It's all about a working class man who's life was judged as irrelevant by an irresponsible policeman as he slowly killed another human. Surely taking a knee for that is worthy of respect.

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1 hour ago, Davebrad said:
1 hour ago, ginge said:
I don't personally agree with the knee but if the players want to do it I am not going to boo them because in my eyes that's not what a supporter does before they've even kicked a ball. Oh come on we both know it'd be pointless doing it in the dressing room! The idea is to raise awareness about racism including in football. For me the social media boycott is a good idea. But what about remembrance day minute silences? Minute silences when someone passes away? Should we get rid of them because supporters just want to see football.
The knee takes how long? Why not turn away or close your eyes if it bothers you? It's hardly in your face. For starters nowadays the pitch is miles away from the stand! 

The mins silence on rememberence day.or when one of our fans has died is to show respect. The taking a knee is political.All lives mater so why qualify it with black...

Taking the knee is a protest designed to draw attention to the fact the black lives are regularly not treated as being equal to some other lives. But you knew this.

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3 hours ago, Davebrad said:
3 hours ago, ginge said:
I don't personally agree with the knee but if the players want to do it I am not going to boo them because in my eyes that's not what a supporter does before they've even kicked a ball. Oh come on we both know it'd be pointless doing it in the dressing room! The idea is to raise awareness about racism including in football. For me the social media boycott is a good idea. But what about remembrance day minute silences? Minute silences when someone passes away? Should we get rid of them because supporters just want to see football.
The knee takes how long? Why not turn away or close your eyes if it bothers you? It's hardly in your face. For starters nowadays the pitch is miles away from the stand! 

The mins silence on rememberence day.or when one of our fans has died is to show respect. The taking a knee is political.All lives mater so why qualify it with black...

 

 

 

"All lives matter" is wrong.

Imagine that you're sitting down to dinner with your family, and while everyone else gets a serving of the meal, you don't get any. So you say "I should get my fair share." And as a direct response to this, your dad corrects you, saying, "everyone should get their fair share." Now, that's a wonderful sentiment -- indeed, everyone should, and that was kinda your point in the first place: that you should be a part of everyone, and you should get your fair share also. However, dad's smart-ass comment just dismissed you and didn't solve the problem that you still haven't gotten any!
The problem is that the statement "I should get my fair share" had an implicit "too" at the end: "I should get my fair share, too, just like everyone else." But your dad's response treated your statement as though you meant "only I should get my fair share", which clearly was not your intention. As a result, his statement that "everyone should get their fair share," while true, only served to ignore the problem you were trying to point out.
That's the situation of the "black lives matter" movement. Culture, laws, the arts, religion, and everyone else repeatedly suggest that all lives should matter. Clearly, that message already abounds in our society.
The problem is that, in practice, the world doesn't work the way. You see the film Nightcrawler? You know the part where Renee Russo tells Jake Gyllenhal that she doesn't want footage of a black or latino person dying, she wants news stories about affluent white people being killed? That's not made up out of whole cloth -- there is a news bias toward stories that the majority of the audience (who are white) can identify with. So when a young black man gets killed (prior to the recent police shootings), it's generally not considered "news", while a middle-aged white woman being killed is treated as news. And to a large degree, that is accurate -- young black men are killed in significantly disproportionate numbers, which is why we don't treat it as anything new. But the result is that, societally, we don't pay as much attention to certain people's deaths as we do to others. So, currently, we don't treat all lives as though they matter equally.
Just like asking dad for your fair share, the phrase "black lives matter" also has an implicit "too" at the end: it's saying that black lives should also matter. But responding to this by saying "all lives matter" is willfully going back to ignoring the problem. It's a way of dismissing the statement by falsely suggesting that it means "only black lives matter," when that is obviously not the case. And so saying "all lives matter" as a direct response to "black lives matter" is essentially saying that we should just go back to ignoring the problem.
TL;DR: The phrase "Black lives matter" carries an implicit "too" at the end; it's saying that black lives should also matter. Saying "all lives matter" is dismissing the very problems that the phrase is trying to draw attention to.

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It's all about a working class man who's life was judged as irrelevant by an irresponsible policeman as he slowly killed another human. Surely taking a knee for that is worthy of respect.
Just to add a few facts to put meat on your comment...he was a unemployed drug addict.whose present in the store caused concern to the shop owner.who called the police. And i.m not condoning what happened but he was a big powerful man who if he had wanted could have caused a lot of damage. Who in the US could well have been armed aswell...

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16 minutes ago, Davebrad said:

Just to add a few facts to put meat on your comment...he was a unemployed drug addict.whose present in the store caused concern to the shop owner.who called the police. And i.m not condoning what happened but he was a big powerful man who if he had wanted could have caused a lot of damage. Who in the US could well have been armed aswell...

Not sure where to start with this one. Could have? Twice? Really? And whether he was addicted to drugs or unemployed or a big unit or not…you know?

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28 minutes ago, Davebrad said:

Just to add a few facts to put meat on your comment...he was a unemployed drug addict.whose present in the store caused concern to the shop owner.who called the police. And i.m not condoning what happened but he was a big powerful man who if he had wanted could have caused a lot of damage. Who in the US could well have been armed aswell...

Ok,he could have caused a lot of damage...the copper caused death. The whole thing is tragic. The dealers are as guilty as anyone,they just kill people in a slower way.

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