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Booing your own players....


cactuselves

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48 minutes ago, cactuselves said:

Bear in mind that these are alternative meanings for the same word. Its the same with the word Left.

The left hand side of the stand were booing loudly -or- they left their sense at the turnstiles.

Most would argue that the initial definition of encourage and approve is closest to what a football supporter does. Although the other definitions could be applied in some sense.

However.... Encourage and approve, bear weight and hold up, assist (esp financially) and enable to function or act.

Does Booing the team fit with any of them?

ALL of the definitions are defining a way of getting behind, aiding to progress, helping to achieve, taking the strain.

The original question was, particularly at this stage of the season and given the current circumstances at the club, does booing the team have any merit?

I think we all know the answer.

 

Im not sure what you mean by initial, so I will assume you mean in this thread.

Not everyone is a fan but everyone who buys a ticket is a supporter, even the away following supports the club financially. Some may be fans of other clubs, some may attend for entertainment.

My mate was a fanatic I was simply a supporter. We went home and away, I went for the entertainment he had to go.

Some don't like what they see and react others don't. Which is exactly what's happening in this thread, some don't like the booing and are reacting, which they have the right to do.

The mood of the crowd is an integral part of the game, especially in the lower leagues, without the crowds there would be no clubs, no players and no one to support. Excite them, give them something to shout about and you are on a winner, P them off you tend to feel their ire.

I don't boo. It's a waste of energy and people don't know what you are booing at/for most of the time.

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50 minutes ago, geosname said:

Some don't like what they see and react others don't. Which is exactly what's happening in this thread, some don't like the booing and are reacting, which they have the right to do.

No-one has said that people don't have a right to boo. I haven't seen a single post that suggests that. I agree 100% that people have the right to boo. I keep asking, but, is it the right thing to do though in the current circumstances at the club? You can enjoy the right to do something, but choose not to do it because it isn't the right thing to do. 

55 minutes ago, geosname said:

Not everyone is a fan but everyone who buys a ticket is a supporter, even the away following supports the club financially. Some may be fans of other clubs, some may attend for entertainment.

Understand that not everyone lives and bleeds the Vale, but 99% of those who pay to watch and sit in the home end want the team to do well and win. Not sure why this changes whether booing is the right thing to do or not.

53 minutes ago, geosname said:

It's a waste of energy and people don't know what you are booing at/for most of the time.

100% agree with this too.

Also agree the the lower league clubs live and die based on support and is integral to the game. Also agree that showing Ire is something that fans can and should do when the circumstances are right for it.... but 3 home games in. Come on.

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58 minutes ago, cactuselves said:

No-one has said that people don't have a right to boo. I haven't seen a single post that suggests that. I agree 100% that people have the right to boo. I keep asking, but, is it the right thing to do though in the current circumstances at the club? You can enjoy the right to do something, but choose not to do it because it isn't the right thing to do. 

Understand that not everyone lives and bleeds the Vale, but 99% of those who pay to watch and sit in the home end want the team to do well and win. Not sure why this changes whether booing is the right thing to do or not.

100% agree with this too.

Also agree the the lower league clubs live and die based on support and is integral to the game. Also agree that showing Ire is something that fans can and should do when the circumstances are right for it.... but 3 home games in. Come on.

If the team starts off by doing something some fans object to it may get a reaction (taking the knee) like booing.

If pèople are booing the team not the action it may be residual  and or accumulative,  it certainly seem pre-emptive. 

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1 hour ago, geosname said:

If the team starts off by doing something some fans object to it may get a reaction (taking the knee) like booing.

If pèople are booing the team not the action it may be residual  and or accumulative,  it certainly seem pre-emptive. 

A/ If the team starts off by doing something some fans object to it may get a reaction (taking the knee) like booing.  <- As before, it is the team that is being booed for taking the action. It is still booing the team. dress it up how you like, disassociate it from the players, make the action seem something other to the humans taking the action, booing the action is still booing the team. My view is that booing isn't helpful if we want to support / help / aid their chances of winning. The team aren't taking a 'negative' action in taking the knee. Even if a supporter doesn't agree with the gesture, as someone who wants the team to win it is easy to find other ways to object to the action that doesn't instill instant negativity, immediately before kick off.

B/ If people are booing the team not the action it may be residual  and or accumulative,  it certainly seem pre-emptive.  <- Agreed

2 hours ago, cactuselves said:

I keep asking, but, is it (booing) the right thing to do though in the current circumstances at the club?

I take it then that you think 'A' above is acceptable but 'B' above is not? You seem to be justifying booing of taking the knee (or at least booing of actions that people disagree with), without answering the above question, so I'm not sure what your stance is. I understand why people boo, which you keep explaining, I just don't think that it is helpful to the team and as a supporter, I always want to try and give them the encouragement in the hope that it might increase their chances of winning by even a tiny margin.

As Beechy said above, everyone will moan, including me, I certainly don't sit there happy clapping for 90 minutes, but I just really dislike this pantomime booing of your own side which seems to have crept in recently.

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28 minutes ago, cactuselves said:

A/ If the team starts off by doing something some fans object to it may get a reaction (taking the knee) like booing.  <- As before, it is the team that is being booed for taking the action. It is still booing the team. dress it up how you like, disassociate it from the players, make the action seem something other to the humans taking the action, booing the action is still booing the team. My view is that booing isn't helpful if we want to support / help / aid their chances of winning. The team aren't taking a 'negative' action in taking the knee. Even if a supporter doesn't agree with the gesture, as someone who wants the team to win it is easy to find other ways to object to the action that doesn't instill instant negativity, immediately before kick off.

B/ If people are booing the team not the action it may be residual  and or accumulative,  it certainly seem pre-emptive.  <- Agreed

I take it then that you think 'A' above is acceptable but 'B' above is not? You seem to be justifying booing of taking the knee (or at least booing of actions that people disagree with), without answering the above question, so I'm not sure what your stance is. I understand why people boo, which you keep explaining, I just don't think that it is helpful to the team and as a supporter, I always want to try and give them the encouragement in the hope that it might increase their chances of winning by even a tiny margin.

As Beechy said above, everyone will moan, including me, I certainly don't sit there happy clapping for 90 minutes, but I just really dislike this pantomime booing of your own side which seems to have crept in recently.

Im not trying to justify what is acceptable or tell people what is acceptable.  Im offering reasons why/how people justify it to themselves.

It's not an issue to me, I don't do it, I don't care if others do. Whether they should is up to the individual to decide.

As for taking the knee....... is it a team decision or the players making individual choices?..... I think some boo the action not the team, some boo for other reasons and some don't know why they are booing. The only people who know why are the people who do it.

As a PS...... booing isn't new, it happened in the 50s, 60s, 70s etc etc..... it's not something that has crept in.

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13 minutes ago, geosname said:

Im not trying to justify what is acceptable or tell people what is acceptable.  Im offering reasons why/how people justify it to themselves.

It's not an issue to me, I don't do it, I don't care if others do. Whether they should is up to the individual to decide.

As for taking the knee....... is it a team decision or the players making individual choices?..... I think some boo the action not the team, some boo for other reasons and some don't know why they are booing. The only people who know why are the people who do it.

As a PS...... booing isn't new, it happened in the 50s, 60s, 70s etc etc..... it's not something that has crept in.

Fair enough! You don't care if others boo, it annoys the hell out of me if it isn't extremely well justified - (because it doesn't help the players.)

I agree that booing isn't new, but I've never heard as much after 3 home games before (especially when we haven't actually played that badly given the player turnaround) and it seems to have become much more readily used (which is why I started the topic really). I've attended in some very bad times and it always felt that fans wanted to get behind the team first and foremost and only booed when really let down by the players.

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27 minutes ago, cactuselves said:

Fair enough! You don't care if others boo, it annoys the hell out of me if it isn't extremely well justified - (because it doesn't help the players.)

I agree that booing isn't new, but I've never heard as much after 3 home games before (especially when we haven't actually played that badly given the player turnaround) and it seems to have become much more readily used (which is why I started the topic really). I've attended in some very bad times and it always felt that fans wanted to get behind the team first and foremost and only booed when really let down by the players.

I suspect that a lot of it may be directed towards DC and his tactics? He's still very much Marmite for some people who are 40 years loyal fans. Just a thought.

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45 minutes ago, cactuselves said:

Every time we are reffed by Trevor Kettle I'm amazed that he's ever SEEN one game 😂

I will admit that over the years there have been a few refs I would have liked to have seen on their knees...... with a large, well studded boot wedged up their passage. 😆

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17 hours ago, geosname said:
  1. 1.
    bear all or part of the weight of; hold up.
    "the dome was supported by a hundred white columns"
     
  2. 2.
    give assistance to, especially financially; enable to function or act.

Clearly, neither of those apply so the only definition applicable is supporting your player(s). VAle fans are not in a position to go on the pitch, lift the players up and put them in useful positions; neither are they allowed on to the pitch to rugby tackle the opposition or carry the ball to a player in an advantageous position. But...if your belief is that these definitions are valid...

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