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Match Thread: Port Vale v Rochdale


Fosse69

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17 minutes ago, philmpv said:

I despair of some Vale fans at times. After 1 poor defensive game against L2 opposition, we're suddenly going nowhere with this defence. The previous 2 goals in 5 games conceded quickly forgotten then? Now we're scoring, we're apparently not scoring through good play, but luckily and/or opposition mistakes. Third choice keeper at Exeter is better than Covolan. Pope's struggling to score for Congleton and missed a sitter against Macclesfield, but he's a good backup option in L2.

Nowt like Vale fans to overreact!

There's a lot of 'last-game' analysis. Recency bias etc.

When we struggled to score, we were a team destined to not score enough this year. None of the strikers were good enough. No goals. Should have given Pope another year.

Now, two games later, we're scoring more freely, but conceding more freely. Now we're a team with a bad defence and that's our problem, when 2 games ago it was the forward line.

Football fans are football fans and that's what makes it fun, but these opening 6 games have seen us excellent, rubbish, free-flowing, stodgy, solid, leaky. Proctor has looked world-class after arriving with an abysmal record. Garrity went from Gerrard at Forest Green to a non-entity yesterday. We simply can't form any real conclusions yet apart from the conclusion that we're hard to figure out. 

It's clear we're very inconsistent, capable of being diametrically opposite within games, let alone week by week.

If we struggle to garner consistency by 10-15 games then it's concerning, but a lot of people have made a conclusion last night after coming to the exact opposite conclusion (with just as much certainty) two weeks ago. The only thing I can conclude at present is that we're a weird team who could feasibly do very well, if we strike a balance and iron out silly mistakes at both ends.

I'd have preferred us to have it all figured out and hit the ground running, but that hasn't happened. Pressure is on Clarke to figure it out, as he openly said Top 7 is success and he has an excellent structure to do so. Right now we feel like a side who have a completely new squad and things are taken a bit longer than expected to slot together.

Edited by Joe B
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22 minutes ago, Coyney Valiant said:

It’s still the bottom division of the football league the old division 4 and I’m afraid it looks a decent league is  because at the moment we don’t look that good maybe the gaffer can turn it around we’ll have to wait and see 

Sadly we are lucky to be where we are as so much of the money in football is no longer with the traditional working class Northern clubs. 

Looking at the league and non league so many of our old Championship level rivals or bigger clubs are down here or worse. 

Wrexham, Stockport, Bury, Oldham, Notts County, Bradford, etc etc have hit all time lows with some others even folding completely. 

Fan power has diminished and Southern small clubs have taken the place of those in the league as they have wealthy local sponsors and increasing populations. 
 

Even big clubs like Sunderland and Ipswich slipping to the third tier was unthinkable 10 years ago. 
 

We don’t really have any income streams, Carol’s philanthropy aside that will easily kick us up the leagues. 
 

The days of mega transfer income thanks to Bosnan are long gone and notably compared to many clubs we don’t seem to get many local sponsors putting money in.   
 

I thought the latter was due to an odious owner but unfortunately although a few have pulled behind Carol’s vision, it isn’t as many as we need. 


 

 

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1 hour ago, dantheman said:

Was very poor after the first 15 minutes. Game should have been wrapped up. Never seen a team go from 100 to 0 so quick. It’s quite worrying tbh. Conlon shouldn’t have come back in for Walker. No two ways manager cost us today and I quite like him. Needed to bring a centre half in to cover legge and we didn’t/haven’t. Martin will never be the answer. Hope he can improve but he was as strong as steam!

Conlon was our best player yesterday after Proctor. If fit he has to start, But I do agree that Walker also needs to be starting to sit in front of that back four. So then you have a choice between Pett and Garrity, and although he had a poor game yesterday I think I'd go with the latter.

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I guess the jury is out on Clarke and the new team. I've only seen 2 games Tranmere and Rochdale. In both we had spells and looked great but seemed to lack ideas and yesterday in particular basic defending and closing down players. Could and should have been 2 up, which is worrying in itself.

 

Stand out players from my first game were Legge, Worrall, Smith and Jones. Yesterday proctor, Worrall and Conlon. We lack a playmaker and are too dependent on Conlon. Proctor was great yesterday. Wilson has a lot to do imo. Football is a relatively simple game, it is players that win games aided by tactics. over complicating things and trying to be 'clever' rarely works at this level.

Why no Amoo, Politic, we had no left sided threat virtually all game?

The bottom line is that there has been major change and investment in both the playing and backroom staff.

Expectations are high and should be. It is time to step up I'm afraid.

I'll reserve judgement.....for now.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, ollyandpatch said:

Just a thought...Brown v Covlan?  Pope v Wilson?  Benning v Montano?  Johnson v Brisley?  Thoughts.?

1) it’s only been 6 games. 
2) was pope a regular starter? So it should be pope v proctor. 
3)What about all the other players? 
 

We must have the most impatient fan base going. Everyone loved them last week and now we’re saying they’re not up to it. Getting really sick of it. 

Edited by valiant_593
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3 minutes ago, Jacob_123 said:


Convenient your comparing pope to Wilson not Proctor (who is Popes replacement)

Proctor looked a good replacement for Pope yesterday. I should apologise to Devante for giving him grief for a left foot scuffed shot when the man I am now praising made an awful miss. That's football I guess, but Proctor did have a Pope like presence all afternoon. Wilson seemed unable to be particularly effective, but Rodney came on and was ineffective as well. They both got dealt with defensively, but Proctor remained a handful. 

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3 minutes ago, valiant_593 said:

1) it’s only been 6 games. 
2) was pope a regular starter? So it should be pope v proctor. 
3)What about all the other players? 
 

We must have the most impatient fan base going. Everyone loved them last week and now we’re saying they’re not up to it. Getting really sick of it. 

We may be an away team! But honestly, I am not making comments with hostility. I think we have a good squad and capable management / backroom staff. But we lost a game yesterday in ways that definitely could have been avoided. 

Edited by Warren
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31 minutes ago, TJHValiant said:

Sadly we are lucky to be where we are as so much of the money in football is no longer with the traditional working class Northern clubs. 

Looking at the league and non league so many of our old Championship level rivals or bigger clubs are down here or worse. 

Wrexham, Stockport, Bury, Oldham, Notts County, Bradford, etc etc have hit all time lows with some others even folding completely. 

Fan power has diminished and Southern small clubs have taken the place of those in the league as they have wealthy local sponsors and increasing populations. 
 

Even big clubs like Sunderland and Ipswich slipping to the third tier was unthinkable 10 years ago. 
 

We don’t really have any income streams, Carol’s philanthropy aside that will easily kick us up the leagues. 
 

The days of mega transfer income thanks to Bosnan are long gone and notably compared to many clubs we don’t seem to get many local sponsors putting money in.   
 

I thought the latter was due to an odious owner but unfortunately although a few have pulled behind Carol’s vision, it isn’t as many as we need. 


 

 

Aston Villa spent a few years in Div 3 in the seventies Man City in the nineties and Burnley nearly got relegated from div 4 in the late eighties or early nineties plus sheff weds and wolves in div 4 

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Great to see the fan zone had a pint of carling (not overly enjoyable ) first one my lads ever brought me so I'm going treasure that .

Said enough about the game if play whole 90 like first 20 odd minutes no reason why we cannot win the league .

The attendances are great I mean 5600 home support is very good considering what league we are in 6113 gate 7 thousand plus last sat home game that's a positive. 

So as the season pans out the home attendances will show how well or unwell we are doing but this booing them at the final whistle and cheering like crazy when they win is as consistent as the performances.

I'm Vale if they win and deserve win I'll applaud them off  ,if they lose and have given everything I will applaud them off especially when you consider the opposition have come down from a higher league and played like it at times its like Fulham v Stoke Fulham better players won the game easily sometimes you have to give the opposition credit and take one on the  chin and say they did a number on us .

UTV 

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I know dropping him could trash Rodney’s already hit confidence but Amoo will have been fuming not to come on yesterday.

That was Rodney’s worst game since joining. Disinterested. I was watching his defensive duties in particular and he’d jog back, constantly narrow, not marking or tracking anyone, contributing zero other than filling a bit of space. You might argue he was finding positions in which he could break quickly from if the ball was turned over but I very much doubt it. I was sat with >10 relatives who’ve never been before and he stood out even to them as crap. 

Not up to par, having a bad game is one thing but not being arsed is nowhere near good enough.

I don’t like the wingbacks set up. Worrall wasted. Midfield bypassed, it’s hoofed up to the front two and turned over. They both have good strength and first touches but what can they do when there’s no bugger available for a pass. 

I haven’t seen the highlights yet as I can’t face it but my gut feeling for the criticism for Covolon is really harsh. I read something from some weapon on twitter earlier calling him a clown after his ‘performance’ yesterday. Glass houses. Nothing much more he could have done for all 3 on first glance from the railway. 

Where do they get these liners from? Another one constantly scared to make a decision and looking to the ref to blow up first before they dare raise their flag. Just give up you tossers, you can’t hack it. 

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12 minutes ago, Doha said:

I haven’t seen the highlights yet as I can’t face it but my gut feeling for the criticism for Covolon is really harsh. I read something from some weapon on twitter earlier calling him a clown after his ‘performance’ yesterday. Glass houses. Nothing much more he could have done for all 3 on first glance from the railway. 

I did think the same but the highlights aren't massively pretty. They'd have been great saves if he'd pulled the first two off but it's undeniable that he's slow to the first. The second flashes past him pretty quick. His clumsy diving style makes it look worse. He seems to be diving backwards for both.

The third is a 1 on 1 and its a tidy finish. Not a great deal he could do but maybe his arms are a bit narrow.

They aren't egregious mistakes at all but, so far, he's yet to make anything more than a standard save. Very harsh some of the criticism levelled at him yesterday as Martin + Benning were far, far worse but he definitely needs to improve.

Edited by Joe B

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I think anyone who suggests that their victory was down to anything other than our defensive mistakes didn’t watch the same game as me. They were superior in every area of the pitch after 20 minutes and the way the players moved around the pitch and made it as wide as possible showed how to play a three man defence. Our midfield in comparison was flat and static and they played through us with ease and finding acres on the flanks to get crosses in. It is no use doing it for 20 mins and then hoping to hang on for the remaining 70+ as tired legs and minds mean plus bad luck often means this yields very little reward. So I don’t think SOME of the criticism is a knee-jerk to a disappointing result yesterday when some of the deficiencies have been clear from pre-season.

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Just seen the goals again. My real time view had been they were good play from Rochdale. Watching them back, while that’s true there was some basic lack of “locking on” from defenders and yes, maybe Cov could have done better, Smith too for the second one. As a more general comment, I think Benning in particular looks a bit lost and needs to work his way into a bit of form and understand the adaptability required of him. If I had been minded to tinker with the defence at half time, I think I’d have moved Jones over to fullback and taken Benning out. All of that said, let’s not forget the context of how mean the defence has been thus far, last week even without Legge.

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2 hours ago, philmpv said:

I despair of some Vale fans at times. After 1 poor defensive game against L2 opposition, we're suddenly going nowhere with this defence. The previous 2 goals in 5 games conceded quickly forgotten then? Now we're scoring, we're apparently not scoring through good play, but luckily and/or opposition mistakes. Third choice keeper at Exeter is better than Covolan. Pope's struggling to score for Congleton and missed a sitter against Macclesfield, but he's a good backup option in L2.

Nowt like Vale fans to overreact! The first game that you can honestly say that we've looked poor (for 70 minutes) all season and some are jumping up and down and screaming from the rooftops to rip it all up and start again. Get a grip
 

Stevenage first half? That was good wasn’t it

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I didn't want to comment until I saw the goals back on tv. But having seen them again I'm not sure what our keeper is doing.
He seems to have a habit of diving backwards, and was caught in no man's land for the winner.
Dury is well and truly out on him after a very poor start to his league career.

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Couldn’t go yesterday as I was working. Bitterly disappointed to see the result. Having watching the highlights, it’s slightly concerning to see us getting beat so easily in the air from crosses. My only real concern about this squad is we lack aerial presence at the back. If I was DC I’d be tempted to see if their are any commanding CH’s as free agents.

The positives are that Proctor took his goals really well and could be that 20+striker.  With him in this form, I would be tempted to play him as the focal point, and revert to 4-3-3. 

Its a long season, and a lot of patience is going to be needed. I’m happy to judge our progress at Christmas. I see potential, fingers crossed. UTV. 

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