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Match Thread: Port Vale v Rochdale


Fosse69

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All the teams we have played so far are currently in the top half.

They have had either very promising - solid starts to the season.

These opening fixtures were known to be tough before the season started.

The team needs to bed in, get settled and the first 11 needs to be established. Can’t do that in 6 games.

The opportunity for growth and development is clear regarding some players, which is a big change from the “this is me until I retire” ceiling of last year.

I’d say we have the manager to turn it around, but that suggests we have started poorly and overall we haven’t. It’s been odd mistakes on the whole rather than being played off the park.

Another top 4 team, with 1 defeat, away from home on Saturday. But it all evens out eventually.

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8 minutes ago, 1 said:

All the teams we have played so far are currently in the top half.

They have had either very promising - solid starts to the season.

These opening fixtures were known to be tough before the season started.

The team needs to bed in, get settled and the first 11 needs to be established. Can’t do that in 6 games.

The opportunity for growth and development is clear regarding some players, which is a big change from the “this is me until I retire” ceiling of last year.

I’d say we have the manager to turn it around, but that suggests we have started poorly and overall we haven’t. It’s been odd mistakes on the whole rather than being played off the park.

Another top 4 team, with 1 defeat, away from home on Saturday. But it all evens out eventually.

Rochdale had won 1 in 5 (just saying ) 

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I think this is a strong division and Rochdale yesterday were a strong team. I think there were reasons why they got relegated last season, but I thought they looked like a good quality League 1 team once they got into the game. Once they came into the game, the disappointing thing for me was we couldn't just be solid, keep them out and play counter attack. We looked constantly vulnerable in defence and particularly in not stopping crosses, in the air on crosses and goalkeeper not dominating the six yard box. I also accuse the goalie yesterday of just not being in goal. On their third goal he just has to do something more than stand there; rush out, anything!

The tactical changes didn't work and we equalised with a well taken goal that to me came as a surprise. Rodney was ineffective, but to me that was because he kept getting tackled by players from a higher level of football than he has played at. So he has to learn from that. He did frustrate with a scuffed left foot shot in a really good position when he has to blast it properly or pass to a well place colleague. 

Going back to the goalie, it is a compliment they stopped his on the ground distribution throughout the game. But he nonetheless carried on kicking from hand - which is basically lumping it. We surely must play out from the back more in that situation and exploit the fact they have temporarily reduced their outfield players to nine by them marking the keeper. 

I still think we have a good squad. I am ok with the manager. But the reality maybe that this is a very strong League 2; is that a consequence of COVID-19 and its post pandemic impact?

Edited by Warren
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Just seen the highlights back. First up, you’ve got to say there was an element of decent play from them but, crikey we didn’t half help them. Our goals came from us blocking clearances rather than being well-worked.

I’m now convinced that 3-5-2 will not work at home with that personnel. Their first goal underlines this. Benning totally out of position in the centre-circle beaten by a drag-back from their no 10 leaving their RWB that entire side to pick out a plumb cross straight on the head of Beesley who’d peeled off Martin. Also, look at the run the no 10 made after he’d laid the ball off to the RWB, they were doing that all afternoon all over the pitch compared to our very static midfield. 

Clarke needs to get over this reluctance to play 4-3-3. Yes it means we lose Wilson, but Amoo/Rodney and Worrall have goals in them when played higher up the pitch and could support Proctor. Walker then offers some defensive protection.

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3 minutes ago, Warren said:

I think this is a strong division and Rochdale yesterday were a strong team. I think there were reasons why they got relegated last season, but I thought they looked like a good quality League 1 team once they got into the game. Once they came into the game, the disappointing thing for me was we couldn't just be solid, keep them out and play counter attack. We looked constantly vulnerable in defence and particularly in not stopping crosses, in the air on crosses and goalkeeper not dominating the six yard box. I also accuse the goalie yesterday of just not being in goal. On their third goal he just has to do something more than stand there; rush out, anything!

The tactical changes didn't work and we equalised with a well taken goal that to me came as a surprise. Rodney was ineffective, but to me that was because he kept getting tackled by players from a higher level of football than he has played at. So he has to learn from that. He did frustrate with a scuffed left foot shot in a really good position when he has to blast it properly or pass to a well place colleague. 

Going back to the goalie, it is a compliment they stopped his on the ground distribution throughout the game. But the nonetheless he carried on kicking from hand - which is basically lumping it. We surely must play out from the back in that situation and exploit the fact they have temporarily reduced their outfield players to nine by them marking the keeper. 

I still think we have a good squad. I am ok with the manager. But the reality maybe that this is a very strong League 2; is that a consequence of COVID-19 and its post pandemic impact?

It’s still the bottom division of the football league the old division 4 and I’m afraid it looks a decent league is  because at the moment we don’t look that good maybe the gaffer can turn it around we’ll have to wait and see 

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2 minutes ago, ollyandpatch said:

Christ there was no agenda from my part. Seen alot of changes in 50 years they were just 4 names that came to mind for a Sunday morning chat, not a crucifixion.  Lol

Brown is clearly a better keeper than Covolan based on what I have seen. But Brown was rusting up with age. Pope had become an impact player; maybe unfairly. The rest, well I need to see more games before I decide if we are better or worse. 

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3 minutes ago, Coyney Valiant said:

It’s still the bottom division of the football league the old division 4 and I’m afraid it looks a decent league is  because at the moment we don’t look that good maybe the gaffer can turn it around we’ll have to wait and see 

Yes, that is a fair enough comment. If try to put some logic on the Premier League has become the top league in Europe again and that can reflect in players being displaced and pushed down the leagues. Also, clubs higher in the structure hit very hard by COVID-19 have released players and cut wage bills; so again the impact will be to push quality deeper. I just genuinely think that Rochdale were a good side yesterday. So too Tranmere - who have taken steps to resolve their striker problem since they played us. 

In our case we looked massively vulnerable at the back yesterday and we are going nowhere with that defence. 

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46 minutes ago, 1 said:

When they’ve had years under their belt and not games someone can let you know.

Well you could argue to my eyes that keeping Pope over Wilson as a sub option with Proctor may have worked. 
 

Brown all day long over Covolan who I remain unconvinced is actually the best keeper at the club. 
 

The others, well as others have said, there are more valid comparisons. Although I do not rate Johnson at all. 

 

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I despair of some Vale fans at times. After 1 poor defensive game against L2 opposition, we're suddenly going nowhere with this defence. The previous 2 goals in 5 games conceded quickly forgotten then? Now we're scoring, we're apparently not scoring through good play, but luckily and/or opposition mistakes. Third choice keeper at Exeter is better than Covolan. Pope's struggling to score for Congleton and missed a sitter against Macclesfield, but he's a good backup option in L2.

Nowt like Vale fans to overreact! The first game that you can honestly say that we've looked poor (for 70 minutes) all season and some are jumping up and down and screaming from the rooftops to rip it all up and start again. Get a grip

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Strange game really, should of been game over after 15 minutes and up until their goal it felt like it was going to be a comfortable afternoon.

Really missed Legge and they don’t score with him there certainly the first two goals which were awful.

Wasn’t sure on the formation, Smith seemed out wide!

The third goal is dreadful, what is Benning doing? He’s next to their scorer and runs the opposite way to goal to him when the ball is played! If he stays on him we deal with that.

Really odd, we looked a real top side early on then just stopped playing, the movement and passing was excellent but once they scored we couldn’t do the simple things right let alone the quality we had produced prior to that.

On the positive though Proctor looks fit and in form. 5 goals already considering his lowish minute total is impressive. Wilson did ok he opened the space for Proctor and his touch was excellent, no surprise once he went off the chances dried up.

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17 minutes ago, philmpv said:

I despair of some Vale fans at times. After 1 poor defensive game against L2 opposition, we're suddenly going nowhere with this defence. The previous 2 goals in 5 games conceded quickly forgotten then? Now we're scoring, we're apparently not scoring through good play, but luckily and/or opposition mistakes. Third choice keeper at Exeter is better than Covolan. Pope's struggling to score for Congleton and missed a sitter against Macclesfield, but he's a good backup option in L2.

Nowt like Vale fans to overreact!

There's a lot of 'last-game' analysis. Recency bias etc.

When we struggled to score, we were a team destined to not score enough this year. None of the strikers were good enough. No goals. Should have given Pope another year.

Now, two games later, we're scoring more freely, but conceding more freely. Now we're a team with a bad defence and that's our problem, when 2 games ago it was the forward line.

Football fans are football fans and that's what makes it fun, but these opening 6 games have seen us excellent, rubbish, free-flowing, stodgy, solid, leaky. Proctor has looked world-class after arriving with an abysmal record. Garrity went from Gerrard at Forest Green to a non-entity yesterday. We simply can't form any real conclusions yet apart from the conclusion that we're hard to figure out. 

It's clear we're very inconsistent, capable of being diametrically opposite within games, let alone week by week.

If we struggle to garner consistency by 10-15 games then it's concerning, but a lot of people have made a conclusion last night after coming to the exact opposite conclusion (with just as much certainty) two weeks ago. The only thing I can conclude at present is that we're a weird team who could feasibly do very well, if we strike a balance and iron out silly mistakes at both ends.

I'd have preferred us to have it all figured out and hit the ground running, but that hasn't happened. Pressure is on Clarke to figure it out, as he openly said Top 7 is success and he has an excellent structure to do so. Right now we feel like a side who have a completely new squad and things are taken a bit longer than expected to slot together.

Edited by Joe B
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22 minutes ago, Coyney Valiant said:

It’s still the bottom division of the football league the old division 4 and I’m afraid it looks a decent league is  because at the moment we don’t look that good maybe the gaffer can turn it around we’ll have to wait and see 

Sadly we are lucky to be where we are as so much of the money in football is no longer with the traditional working class Northern clubs. 

Looking at the league and non league so many of our old Championship level rivals or bigger clubs are down here or worse. 

Wrexham, Stockport, Bury, Oldham, Notts County, Bradford, etc etc have hit all time lows with some others even folding completely. 

Fan power has diminished and Southern small clubs have taken the place of those in the league as they have wealthy local sponsors and increasing populations. 
 

Even big clubs like Sunderland and Ipswich slipping to the third tier was unthinkable 10 years ago. 
 

We don’t really have any income streams, Carol’s philanthropy aside that will easily kick us up the leagues. 
 

The days of mega transfer income thanks to Bosnan are long gone and notably compared to many clubs we don’t seem to get many local sponsors putting money in.   
 

I thought the latter was due to an odious owner but unfortunately although a few have pulled behind Carol’s vision, it isn’t as many as we need. 


 

 

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1 hour ago, dantheman said:

Was very poor after the first 15 minutes. Game should have been wrapped up. Never seen a team go from 100 to 0 so quick. It’s quite worrying tbh. Conlon shouldn’t have come back in for Walker. No two ways manager cost us today and I quite like him. Needed to bring a centre half in to cover legge and we didn’t/haven’t. Martin will never be the answer. Hope he can improve but he was as strong as steam!

Conlon was our best player yesterday after Proctor. If fit he has to start, But I do agree that Walker also needs to be starting to sit in front of that back four. So then you have a choice between Pett and Garrity, and although he had a poor game yesterday I think I'd go with the latter.

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