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The Sentinel is a Joke


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59 minutes ago, MBE said:

I've given up on The Sentinel. I removed it from my reading favourites.. waste of time.

I don't understand the complaints about Radio Stoke though. Yes the programming is weighted heavily towards Stoke but at least they report what's going on around the club. I really don't know what people expect - its all about listening figures and even the most ardent Vale fan would have to admit there are lot more Stoke fans in the North Stafforshire and surrounding areas.

There always will be more Stoke fans so long as the publicity is weighted in their favour. Even back in the 90’s when we were in a higher league the local radio and press favoured them. There’s a lot to shout about at Vale, especially in relation to the good work in the community initiated by Carol, the new fanzone along with the updating of the ground. Hopefully within a short space of time we will have a team to shout about but I doubt the Sentinel will hear it. Ah well.

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7 hours ago, Jacko51 said:

But as Rob has pointed out the Sentinel is no longer an independent local newspaper. It is a small arm of Reach Plc which now controls local papers all over the country. The Newcastle Chronicle is also run by Reach. It is a fact of life that local newspapers  in their original format are a thing of the past. Folk simply stopped buying them and circulation plummeted. They were no long economic propositions hence the takeovers.

The Newcastle Chronicle has the same appallingly designed website as the Sentinel. It is not the responsibility of our local reporters - it’s the big guys at Reach. 

I really have little liking of the world we live in anymore, financial motive is king. Used to love the Green un,it was my job to take a copy into The Albert on a Saturday evening  when I lived in Newcastle in the 90s and talk about results with a few of us Vale and a lot more Stokies. Things have changed with a loss of regional identity. Thank my lucky stars I was born when I was,1961,lived through the most interesting of times.

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Did we play in the week, as the last thing on line is the Dan Jones story.  We also had a player come in on loan as well. Did we dream these two things happening this week? 😴

Thank goodness for this site to bring some news about Vale and facebook sites on the Vale.

Senile only seems to concentrate on one team now - have they fell out of love with Vale and our great owners.  Bet if the owners did something wrong they would be all over them and reporting silly stuff like all good journalists seem to do now.

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Still trying to understand why the frig a pub team in Cheshire were prioritised on DAB with Vale relegated to freeview?

Anyone?

Then again this is the radio station where the Crewe reporter endorsed a tweet comparing the Vale official supporters club to the national front so anything is possible with that shower. 

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On a wider note, I don't really understand the radio restrictions in place at 3pm on Saturday. The ones which only allow broadcasting in the local area. What is that preventing?

If it's the same principle as the stream blackout from 3pm on Saturdays (i.e. trying to stop people staying at home and watching it there) then it's the wrong way around.

Technically, shouldn't it be locally-based supporters who can't get the commentary so as to encourage them to turn up to the games? (that wouldn't be popular but it's actually more rational). Right now people in the local area who CAN get to the ground get the option of listening to the commentary for free on Radio Stoke. People outside of the area who have much less chance of popping along to the game (e.g. it's a long trip from Cornwall) are blocked from listening to free commentary. Their only option is the increasingly flaky audio stream on IFollow which costs a monthly/annual fee.

Clearly Radio Stoke doesn't have enough frequencies to cover three teams but if they were allowed to have commentary streaming (e.g. the BBC pages for Stoke, Port Vale and Crewe and on the iFollow app if you're mobile) that would get around that frequencies problem and also open up the commentaries for everyone around the country. It's also moving with the times as things increasing go online rather than via radio broadcasts (the problem RS have now is the switching off of MW - how long before FM goes too). 

I can't see it affecting the Vale attendances (as I've stated it's already available for free in the local area anyhow) but surely just allowing it FOC for the rest of the country/globe is a better idea than hiding it behind a paywall. That paywall is going to put newer/more casual fans off and the money the club earns from this paywall is bound to be fairly minimal. Isn't it better to have it for free and try and grow the fanbase by allowing anyone to listen, wherever they are? The fans you develop through the free stream would probably bring in more money over their lifetime then the paywall revenue anyhow. 

Commentary is never as good as being there so I can't see it having that much of an effect on attendances either. 

However, this isn't a Vale thing they can do by themselves as broadcasting is decided en masse by the entire EFL at their meetings so all the clubs would need to agree to it.

I hope that they do because, as I say, it's the wrong way around at the moment.

 

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Contractual reasons. Commentary online is a paid service via EFL / ifollow. The BBC does a syndicated programme from Salford called Squad Goals now for local radio stations to put online instead of just a placeholder message saying we cannot bring you your programme etc…

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Posted (edited)
49 minutes ago, robf said:

On a wider note, I don't really understand the radio restrictions in place at 3pm on Saturday. The ones which only allow broadcasting in the local area. What is that preventing?

If it's the same principle as the stream blackout from 3pm on Saturdays (i.e. trying to stop people staying at home and watching it there) then it's the wrong way around.

Technically, shouldn't it be locally-based supporters who can't get the commentary so as to encourage them to turn up to the games? (that wouldn't be popular but it's actually more rational). Right now people in the local area who CAN get to the ground get the option of listening to the commentary for free on Radio Stoke. People outside of the area who have much less chance of popping along to the game (e.g. it's a long trip from Cornwall) are blocked from listening to free commentary. Their only option is the increasingly flaky audio stream on IFollow which costs a monthly/annual fee.

Clearly Radio Stoke doesn't have enough frequencies to cover three teams but if they were allowed to have commentary streaming (e.g. the BBC pages for Stoke, Port Vale and Crewe and on the iFollow app if you're mobile) that would get around that frequencies problem and also open up the commentaries for everyone around the country. It's also moving with the times as things increasing go online rather than via radio broadcasts (the problem RS have now is the switching off of MW - how long before FM goes too). 

I can't see it affecting the Vale attendances (as I've stated it's already available for free in the local area anyhow) but surely just allowing it FOC for the rest of the country/globe is a better idea than hiding it behind a paywall. That paywall is going to put newer/more casual fans off and the money the club earns from this paywall is bound to be fairly minimal. Isn't it better to have it for free and try and grow the fanbase by allowing anyone to listen, wherever they are? The fans you develop through the free stream would probably bring in more money over their lifetime then the paywall revenue anyhow. 

Commentary is never as good as being there so I can't see it having that much of an effect on attendances either. 

However, this isn't a Vale thing they can do by themselves as broadcasting is decided en masse by the entire EFL at their meetings so all the clubs would need to agree to it.

I hope that they do because, as I say, it's the wrong way around at the moment.

 

Hi Rob if you have time could you give me a call. I put my phone no on the email I sent you not long ago. I have much more to add to this for you. It mite make a good piece for the front page.

Edited by Tapper

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1 hour ago, Santa said:

Contractual reasons. Commentary online is a paid service via EFL / ifollow. The BBC does a syndicated programme from Salford called Squad Goals now for local radio stations to put online instead of just a placeholder message saying we cannot bring you your programme etc…

Yep, but what I'm saying is that the logic behind that contract is wrong.

Fans living in one part of the country get a free service, fans living in another part of the country don't.

If there's a good reason why that's the case, fine, but I don't think there is. 

The logic that all fans live near to their club's stadium is outdated and something that has been addressed through things like online ticketing, online club shops and streams. Many do live nearby but it's not all of them.

However, it seems the EFL logic is stuck in the past if it thinks that having free commentary only in the Potteries will reach all Vale fans.

Even then the logic falls apart by the charge if you are out of the area. If you're providing free commentary to Vale fans in the Potteries then shouldn't it, by the same logic, be free to fans wherever they live? 

What's the logic in restricting other Vale fans from the same service? What are they preventing by blocking the broadcast? If it's fine to broadcast it in Stoke-on-Trent why shouldn't it also be possible to listen to it for free on BBC Sounds in London, Manchester or Cardiff?

I just find it ironic that if I'm up in Stoke visiting family I can listen for free but if I'm "home" I can't and have to pay.

It's not up to Vale to solve, it needs to be an EFL decision, but I hope they review it and come to a different conclusion.

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19 minutes ago, Tapper said:

Hi Rob if you have time could you give me a call. I put my phone no on the email I sent you not long ago. I have much more to add to this for you. It mite make a good piece for the front page.

I'll check my emails - thanks

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17 minutes ago, robf said:

It's not up to Vale to solve, it needs to be an EFL decision, but I hope they review it and come to a different conclusion.

It's a revenue stream now that EFL digital will never give up without a fight. 

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Whilst I concur with everyone's views on the local reporting of Vale and I agree it's the way of the world these days.

In defence of the Sentinel at the time my recollection of the paper when we were in the 'Championship' as it now is and Stoke were in the league below the Sentinel did make us 'top dogs' where reporting was concerned. It were great!

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56 minutes ago, Doha said:

It's a revenue stream now that EFL digital will never give up without a fight. 

But EFL Digital isn't a separate, independent entity making its own decisions - it's simply the Football League pooling all the club's digital services into one organisation so they can negotiate deals on behalf of the whole Football League rather than on a club by club basis.

What the EFL Digital sell/licence is agreed by the clubs (at the annual conference I would presume). So, feasibly, if enough clubs decide it's better to have free access to grow their fanbase and that outweighs the (probably tiny) revenue from the radio commentary iFollow service then they can vote for changes to EFL Digital's deals. 

The other option (or at least it was a few years ago) is that clubs can give notice, opt out of EFL digital and go it alone with their own deals. The issue with that is you would have to build your own platform (like IFollow), own payment system, own recording equipment, staff and so on. So, most clubs just go for the collective agreement. But the key bit is that it is a collective agreement which can be altered if the will is there.

The only part I'm not sure on is it there is an element of government legislation (the 3pm blackout rules). If so, it would be really bizarre if legislation blacks out commentary OUTSIDE of a club's "catchment" area but allows it IN it. As I've mentioned earlier, the blackout rules are there to encourage fans to attend and that logic therefore appears to be the wrong way around. Logically, it should be blacked out in the "catchment" area and free outside of it.

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Posted (edited)

There's no way we're going to get any change out of The Sentinel because, as other posters have pointed out, it's now just a minute part of the amorphous blob called Reach plc. Here's a summary from Wiki:

"Reach plc (known as Trinity Mirror between 1999 and 2018) is a British newspaper, magazine and digitalpublisher. It is one of Britain's biggest newspaper groups, publishing 240 regional papers in addition to the national Daily Mirror, Sunday Mirror, The Sunday People, Daily Express, Sunday Express, Daily Star, Daily Star Sunday as well as the Scottish Daily Record and Sunday Mail and the magazine OK!. Since purchasing Local World, it has gained 83 print publications. Reach plc's headquarters are at Canary Wharf in London. It is listed on the London Stock Exchange and is a constituent of the FTSE 250 Index."

We may as well throw pebbles down a well.

What causes me more concern is the treatment that's been dished out to Tapper and perhaps other fellow Vale fans, which is as a result of changes in operation by BBC Stoke. Perhaps we'd have more luck if we concentrated on them - they're local, seem to have more say in what happens to their local programming and might be more amenable to issues that impinge directly on their equal opportunities and access policy.

Perhaps we could focus more on this issue - it would be a great victory for the club as well as helping one of our own. 

Edited by CambridgeDon
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23 hours ago, melv said:

Even the ratio in which RS do the calls is a massive imbalance.They give Stoke much more air time on P&G after the match.They have done so for years.Last Saturday P&G was about 1/2 hour in before any significant mention about Vale.The show is a 1 hour show (but 1/2 an hour before Vale mentioned.That first half hour of Stoke coverage didnt even include the post match interview with their manager

 

Tuesday night

Stoke v Swansea on FM.

Oxford v Crewe  on DAB

Vale v Carlisle on Freeview.

OK I know Vale were the only home team of the 3 teams.I can see a reasoning why this match was put on Freeview.So by that logic next time all 3 play and Stoke are the only home team.Vale & Crewe are playing away.Then it stands to reason that the Stoke game will be moved to Freeview Will that happen?? I doubt it lets wait and see.Was it Bryn last season the Stoke fan that was on week after week.He himself has probably had more air time himself on Radio Stoke that all Vale the fans who managed to get a call through then be lucky enough to get the return call from Radio Stoke

 

Never used to turn P&G on until 17.30 melv,don't even bother now.😥

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