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Match Thread: Stevenage v Port Vale


Fosse69

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I like both Rodney and Proctor but both seem more 'supportive' forwards than the main bagsman. Ones to run channels and cause a variety of problems without being the man in the 18. The hope was clearly that Wilson would be said 'main man'. He gets himself into great positions on a regular basis but his decision-making/finishing has let him down. Worth persevering as eventually, when you get into good positions, goals come. 

Tempted by:

Lucas

Cass Legge Jones Benning

Conlon Walker Pett

Worrall Wilson Rodney

Jones at CB as he can pass and can help build up. Cass gives us a bit more aerial presence. 

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1 hour ago, valefan16 said:


Who do you drop though? Worrall you can’t really. Take Benning off you lose the wing back role so would need 4-4-2 or a 4-3-3 for it I guess.

I’d keep Worrall and play just one of Wilson,Proctor or Devante. Your right the wingers do have to have a full back behind them who they have an understanding with. Cass at right back and Benning at left back.

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2 hours ago, LancyTony said:

No goals in Conlon / Worrall / Politic / Proctor with, presumably, Wilson and Rodney on the bench??? I don't think it's Breadwinner going mad? 😇 

Thanks Tony, but the data tell a different story. 

Since joining the Vale, Conlon has scored just 14 in total in 114 games over 4 seasons and Wozza (surprisingly) just 15 in 153 games over 5 seasons, while Politic has scored just 5 in 30 games in the EFL and Proctor (again surprisingly) just 10 goals in 71 games over the last four seasons. So between them, they've only scored 44 goals in 368 games, averaging just one goal every eight games. (EFL games, excluding this season).

Not quite no goals, I agree, but hardly prolific. 

And that's our problem. We don't have a side full of goals as we've seen and I'm just hoping that DC brings in a forward with better goal scoring ability or we'll definitely struggle. Here's hoping.

PS I've checked my maths, so hoping it's OK! 

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I remember at the start of last season fans were saying we didn’t have enough goals in the squad. If you look at the number of league goals we scored and compare it to the top 7 it’s interesting. We got 57, Bolton got 59, as did FGR, Newport got 57 and Tranny, with their 20 goal  season James Vaughan, got 55. Let’s wait and see what happens. 

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I remember at the start of last season fans were saying we didn’t have enough goals in the squad. If you look at the number of league goals we scored and compare it to the top 7 it’s interesting. We got 57, Bolton got 59, as did FGR, Newport got 57 and Tranny, with their 20 goal  season James Vaughan, got 55. Let’s wait and see what happens. 

In all fairness we got a quarter of those goals in just three games which made it a bit lob sided, if you add in the two 4-3 defeats then we got only 37 in 41 other games.

That said we weren’t defending as well for most of the season and we still have attack minded players such as Conlon, Politic and hopefully a decent fourth striker to come in this time and seem more organised at the back.
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2 hours ago, CambridgeDon said:

Thanks Tony, but the data tell a different story. 

Since joining the Vale, Conlon has scored just 14 in total in 114 games over 4 seasons and Wozza (surprisingly) just 15 in 153 games over 5 seasons, while Politic has scored just 5 in 30 games in the EFL and Proctor (again surprisingly) just 10 goals in 71 games over the last four seasons. So between them, they've only scored 44 goals in 368 games, averaging just one goal every eight games. (EFL games, excluding this season).

Not quite no goals, I agree, but hardly prolific. 

And that's our problem. We don't have a side full of goals as we've seen and I'm just hoping that DC brings in a forward with better goal scoring ability or we'll definitely struggle. Here's hoping.

PS I've checked my maths, so hoping it's OK! 

Stats can be manipulated to say whatever we want. As an aside. I've just watched re-runs of Amoo's shot that hit the post, and Smith's overhead kick that hit the bar - there were 5 Vale players in the box ion both occasions. My main point before that, though, was that - no matter what system we play - if players don't score from good opportunities, it's not the fault of the system! As a question to your stats - of Conlon's 14 goals, how many came last season? And how many assists have these players been credited with - because an assist is just a goal scored by a different player?

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1 hour ago, valefan16 said:


In all fairness we got a quarter of those goals in just three games which made it a bit lob sided, if you add in the two 4-3 defeats then we got only 37 in 41 other games.

That said we weren’t defending as well for most of the season and we still have attack minded players such as Conlon, Politic and hopefully a decent fourth striker to come in this time and seem more organised at the back.

"If you take away goals we actually scored, we didn't score many!"

I get your point and I'm being disingenuous but when DC came in we had one of the worst defences in the worst professional football league in the country, in terms of goals conceded. He's really sorted it out. 

Eventually one of these will bounce inside a post instead of outside and people's views will change. The chances are there. 

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Third visit here. 

Previous two were wars of attrition. In fairness I think they are a changed outfit since Revell took over. He's done an excellent job . 

Going to be a difficult game, just think taking the lead would do wonders for our confidence. Are they on the rebound from the thrashing at Bradford , either way a point isn't to be sniffed at but with FGR next week to come we need to get a win from one of them . 

I'll be positive and say 0-1 . 

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I am expecting nothing from the Stevenage game or the Forest Green game. Both Tranmere and Carlisle looked like teams who could have beaten us, that free header for Tranmere towards the end should have been a goal, we were lucky that they are not up to speed yet. Carlisle had that break away when they were four on one and should have scored. Our only similar moment was the Amoo chance and then he was not in the best position to score. I know we are hoping that the players will gel, early days, any cliches you like really but considering that we have supposedly recruited based on stats and this is largely Clarkes team I am not seeing any great signs of us being a great team. We have some good individual players but that doesn't always make a good team, look at England in the Gerard, Lampard days for example. 

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14 minutes ago, Rampant Zebra said:

I am expecting nothing from the Stevenage game or the Forest Green game. Both Tranmere and Carlisle looked like teams who could have beaten us, that free header for Tranmere towards the end should have been a goal, we were lucky that they are not up to speed yet. Carlisle had that break away when they were four on one and should have scored. Our only similar moment was the Amoo chance and then he was not in the best position to score. I know we are hoping that the players will gel, early days, any cliches you like really but considering that we have supposedly recruited based on stats and this is largely Clarkes team I am not seeing any great signs of us being a great team. We have some good individual players but that doesn't always make a good team, look at England in the Gerard, Lampard days for example. 

Contradictory. We were lucky they are not up to speed you say 

Tranmere and Carlisle were lucky we aren't up to speed also or we'd beat them both . 

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A few thoughts:

He is being mentioned in every thread, but he is gone and it was time to move on. There will be more discussion on here when everyone has had time to listen to his views on the podcast and I'm certain that lots of people will get the hump with DF and DC over it. 

Lets just remember that as of Jan *MAJOR* changes were needed at the club, it was time for a new broom and the new manager has to think about the future, not the past. I LOVE Tom Pope, he is a vale legend, but I also think we will all feel the same about DC in a few years time.

In the performances so far this season we have looked solid, I was never really worried about the opposition scoring in the two home league games (apart from the 4 v 1 against Carlise which was an anomaly) and we were playing against some very good L2 opposition. Carlisle had to throw everything at it to get a point. Even with 10 men at Northampton we looked solid. 

The manager has basically bought in a new squad, only 4 of the starters vs Carlisle and Bradford were here last season, settling a squad down *TAKES TIME* we have played three, only conceded one and have created 5th most chances in the league, have a really high expected goals ratio and hit the woodwork 4 times in the last two games. Goals will come.

3-5-2 gets panned because people think it doesn't play to Worrall's strengths. But I thought against Carlisle Worrall had loads of opportunities to affect the game in the attacking third, it just didn't come off for him and the forwards weren't always on the same wavelength (which is a thing that will come with time). DC knows what he is doing, the system keeps us solid which is absolutely the most important thing when building confidence with a new team, and we can create chances using that system as the facts prove. 

In the last two games, Conlon and Taylor were not available so our middle three were a little more defensive, with one of those two in there, we can create even more chances and also link between the midfield and forwards better.

DC changes systems throughout the season, so we'll see alternatives to 3-5-2.

With the new players, Jones and Walker have especially impressed. Pett has looked a steady addition, Covolan looks a good keeper to me.

Wilson has obvious talent with the ball at his feet, needs confidence. Proctor also looks a lot better with the ball at his feet than I expected, if anything I was hoping he was a bit more physical. Garrity is a runner, full of effort and is clearly Walkers back up but is playing because of injuries - he'll be a good player to bring off the bench with that energy later in the season. The jury is out on Benning for me, he looks really unfit and didnt look like he wanted to run down the line with the ball at any point in the two home games - has a good left foot but needs to bring more energy to that position which has affected our balance. 

So - for me, I would  go 3-4-3 vs Stevenage and bring Politic in for Benning, Move Rodders to the left of the three (where he is massively more affective) and bring Wilson back in for Proctor. The left hand side of Rodders, Politic, Jones would cause all sorts of problems and Worrall is always going to create chances.

Could easily then switch to 3-5-2 with the same personnel to tighten things up a bit more.

UTV - it'll come.

 

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3 minutes ago, cactuselves said:

A few thoughts:

He is being mentioned in every thread, but he is gone and it was time to move on. There will be more discussion on here when everyone has had time to listen to his views on the podcast and I'm certain that lots of people will get the hump with DF and DC over it. 

Lets just remember that as of Jan *MAJOR* changes were needed at the club, it was time for a new broom and the new manager has to think about the future, not the past. I LOVE Tom Pope, he is a vale legend, but I also think we will all feel the same about DC in a few years time.

In the performances so far this season we have looked solid, I was never really worried about the opposition scoring in the two home league games (apart from the 4 v 1 against Carlise which was an anomaly) and we were playing against some very good L2 opposition. Carlisle had to throw everything at it to get a point. Even with 10 men at Northampton we looked solid. 

The manager has basically bought in a new squad, only 4 of the starters vs Carlisle and Bradford were here last season, settling a squad down *TAKES TIME* we have played three, only conceded one and have created 5th most chances in the league, have a really high expected goals ratio and hit the woodwork 4 times in the last two games. Goals will come.

3-5-2 gets panned because people think it doesn't play to Worrall's strengths. But I thought against Carlisle Worrall had loads of opportunities to affect the game in the attacking third, it just didn't come off for him and the forwards weren't always on the same wavelength (which is a thing that will come with time). DC knows what he is doing, the system keeps us solid which is absolutely the most important thing when building confidence with a new team, and we can create chances using that system as the facts prove. 

In the last two games, Conlon and Taylor were not available so our middle three were a little more defensive, with one of those two in there, we can create even more chances and also link between the midfield and forwards better.

DC changes systems throughout the season, so we'll see alternatives to 3-5-2.

With the new players, Jones and Walker have especially impressed. Pett has looked a steady addition, Covolan looks a good keeper to me.

Wilson has obvious talent with the ball at his feet, needs confidence. Proctor also looks a lot better with the ball at his feet than I expected, if anything I was hoping he was a bit more physical. Garrity is a runner, full of effort and is clearly Walkers back up but is playing because of injuries - he'll be a good player to bring off the bench with that energy later in the season. The jury is out on Benning for me, he looks really unfit and didnt look like he wanted to run down the line with the ball at any point in the two home games - has a good left foot but needs to bring more energy to that position which has affected our balance. 

So - for me, I would  go 3-4-3 vs Stevenage and bring Politic in for Benning, Move Rodders to the left of the three (where he is massively more affective) and bring Wilson back in for Proctor. The left hand side of Rodders, Politic, Jones would cause all sorts of problems and Worrall is always going to create chances.

Could easily then switch to 3-5-2 with the same personnel to tighten things up a bit more.

UTV - it'll come.

 

Great post!!

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