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Referees


Diego Maradona
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11 hours ago, wotsyobeef said:

I suppose some of us who complain about the current refs could always go and get qualified and work our way up through the leagues.

I've done it a couple of times on a Sunday morning and certainly wouldn't want to do it myself.

I'm as frustrated as the next fan about how poor some of the refs we have are but I suppose without doing something about it myself I can't be too critical.

I am very old and have arthritic knees.  Does that mean I can't criticise incompetent refereeing because I should go and get qualified.

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I’m sure refereeing is a little more complex than I fully understand with knowing all of the different rules etc. and also having to be extremely fit.

However, when I’ve refereed lads football in the past (clearly without any training) one basic principle I went out onto the pitch with was: ‘If I haven’t seen it, I can’t give it’. I appreciate that that simple principle has its flaws but at least everyone knows where they stand.

To me, refs give plenty of decisions on incidents that they have not seen! Why? This was evidenced on numerous occasions on Tuesday and every Vale game I watch.

This needs to be addressed.

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1 hour ago, Diego Maradona said:

To me, refs give plenty of decisions on incidents that they have not seen! Why? This was evidenced on numerous occasions on Tuesday and every Vale game I watch.

 

Exactly, the ref was guessing.  He guessed that Stone was going to foul the player rather than saw it.

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Spot on DM and Jacko

The vast majority accept refs can miss things but making them up is criminal.

On Tueday, anyone able to see that incident knew Stone had got the ball.

You simply could not see it with your own eyes and give it any other way.

It was a joke.

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I'm not saying that referees shouldn't be criticised but that it should be done in a constructive way.

By hurling abuse at them it means that they are less likely to stick at it and improve. It is a hard job. 

It is however a 2 way thing. The referees association need to be more transparent, they act like a corrupt 70s police force in the way that they will never admit that they are wrong, and twist interpretations to stand behind whatever decision a ref has made. When you hear Peter Walton on BT you know exactly what he is going to say before he says it, "The ref has made the correct decision because.........." regardless of what happened.

Referees should be aloud to come out and apologise for decisions that they got wrong. Officials should be mic'd up so that you can hear and understand their reasoning for a decision. You may not agree with their reasoning but it is a lot easier to accept if you understand what they thought they saw and why they came to the conclusion that they did.

Referees should be rewarded for good performances rather than punished for individual mistakes in a big game. If they consistently perform badly then obviously they should be demoted. Rebecca Welch got really good reviews from both teams in the game she had with us last season but hasn't had a mens league game since (she has got Barrow & Hartlepool on Saturday). How does that make sense? 

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From an outsider, refereeing seems an odd ‘business’. 

I certainly think improvements need to be made, however and from whoever is involved.

I suppose if he had had a microphone his explanation would have been something along the lines that he saw Stone trip the the forward (for the penalty) and saw one of our players foul their keeper (for the disallowed goal). But he was miles away from play for the penalty and he didn’t/couldn’t have seen it because it didn’t happen. Likewise the foul on their keeper. It didn’t happen.

Its almost like they think ‘What’s the easiest way of me getting out of this?’ (‘This’ being an incident that has happened BUT they haven’t actually seen) The answer always seems to be the same: blow for a foul on a keeper, give a foul to a player who clearly dives but the incident is too far away to see etc.

If you (or the other officials)haven’t seen it - don’t give it!

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Can remember when Graham Poll booked a player twice and didnt send him off, it was a World / European cup finals .  Made him look a total idiot. At the time the comment was why didnt his Linesman help him out and give him the nudge?  Mentioned this to someone inside the game and he told me it was because Poll was famous for telling his Liners in the pre match chat, 

" dont flag for anything , I will see it all so just follow my lead"

He said he was well known in the game for doing this,  his Liners would have been loving it, just desserts. Guess now  what comes to mind every time I see the ball go out right in front of a Liner and they look to the Ref before flagging ?

Total waste of resource but explains why so, so many poor decisions are made.

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What winds me up the most about referees is that they never have to come out and answer for their errors. After a game if the manager gets something wrong he has to answer for it, why aren’t the refs made to comment / apologies for major errors. It also gives them the chance to explain why it was given.  The ref from Tuesday and the lines people as they were dreadful should come out and apologise and say they made some errors. But they don’t. They’re protected and instead managers are made to comment on the errors. 

Edited by valiant_593
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10 minutes ago, Playa Amodores said:

I read somewhere that his full time role is that of a fire officer. Obviously really good at that as he gets so much time off to referee. I hope he is able to assess situations better and take the appropriate action

He should stick to putting fires out 

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10 hours ago, Howjy04 said:

That was an easy decision on Tuesday.If people 100 yards away ,in the Railway ,can see a goalkeeper has clearly palmed the ball away and not the player then surely a referee can see that from 20 yards.I’d also suggest that the liner on the Lorne  Street side could have had a clear view of the incident.The disallowed goal beggared belief previous to that.I’m not saying we would have won but .......

The liner on Lorne St was too busy adjusting her shorts EVERY time she ran up and down the line 🤔A point noticed by many on the night.

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On 11/08/2021 at 19:02, Diego Maradona said:

After yesterday’s refereeing debacle, maybe refereeing needs a total ‘re-set’?

Things which seem to be given by lazy refereeing but shouldn’t be are, for example: gaining 10 yards on a throw in, opposition players standing on top of the ball (stopping the attacking team from taking a quick fee-kick), giving fouls when players (usually the opposition) dive for no apparent reason (but only the referee can’t see what is going on), making decisions about things they think they have seen but actually haven’t or are too far way to make an accurate decision etc.

The amount of money in the EFL should ensure a certain calibre of referee, providing enough training, experience etc for a ‘given’ referee before he/she even contemplates refereeing a professional game.

Refereeing also seems to be a ‘closed shop’. Have a bad game - so what? Just carry on regardless.

For me, referees should have adequate training and experience before even being considered to referee a professional match. They should have the full support of the FA/EFL before entering into the job. A ‘standardised’ criteria of proficiency/ability that they are accountable to on a regular basis.

Why should substandard refereeing be tolerated? 
 

Any thoughts?

 

I agree with most of that. In my opinion hey need to be given a 2 or 3 match assessment period before they are deemed to be sufficiently qualified to make decisions that can cost clubs promotion / relegation and subsequent reduction in income? I'd further suggest that the panel that assesses them is made up of ex-referees / current referees and fans, and that they are really strictly scrutinised. Decisions like those we saw the other night should not be being made - it's as simple as that! 

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Problem is there isn't enough talent coming up the ranks so that when someone is clearly <ovf censored> they have to stick with them. 

 

Add a 0 to their pay and make it a career choice. Add two 0s - refs decisions are worth potentiallyb millions. 

 

Then let's have proper review and analysis of referees performance and let's publish it every week. If a ref is getting a low score week after week he should be retrained and back down at amateur football. Refs getting consistent average scores should go up the ladder.

 

Sounds simple but I really do think if they increased the pay significantly you would see a higher calibre of people interested in doing it. Refs in the league I play in in Austria get 50 euros a game. Its bottom level but I have no idea why someone would give up 3 hours of their Sunday morning for it. 

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3 hours ago, ELDERBEZZA said:

The liner on Lorne St was too busy adjusting her shorts EVERY time she ran up and down the line 🤔A point noticed by many on the night.

So you lot spent the night looking at the liner’s bottom. Very sexist!

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Guest Vale at home
6 hours ago, The man in the pub said:

Can remember when Graham Poll booked a player twice and didnt send him off, it was a World / European cup finals .  Made him look a total idiot. At the time the comment was why didnt his Linesman help him out and give him the nudge?  Mentioned this to someone inside the game and he told me it was because Poll was famous for telling his Liners in the pre match chat, 

" dont flag for anything , I will see it all so just follow my lead"

He said he was well known in the game for doing this,  his Liners would have been loving it, just desserts. Guess now  what comes to mind every time I see the ball go out right in front of a Liner and they look to the Ref before flagging ?

Total waste of resource but explains why so, so many poor decisions are made.

Yes she did . 

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