Match Thread: Port Vale v Tranmere Rovers

[valiant_593]

23 minutes ago, philmpv said:

39 minutes ago, valiant_593 said:

Wouldn’t bring covolan back personally, stone looks ok to me and deserves to keep his place. Legge did play well but is it making the same mistake as last season? Two games in a week could be too much. Cass looked useful as well, start him at RB so Worrall can hurt tranmere.  Personally I’d like to see 433. 
                Stone
Cass      Smith    Martin   Benning
        Conlon   Pett    Walker
        Worrall   Proctor  Rodney 
Nothing against Wilson, just proctor looked really impressive last night and a goal threat. Jones has been decent as well but I do think Benning is the better player.
 
 

Very harsh to drop Jones after last night's performance

It is as he has played well, just really rate Benning and think he is a better player. 

[philmpv]

It is as he has played well, just really rate Benning and think he is a better player. 

I personally haven't seen that yet. Some of the balls Jones was pinging across the pitch last night were outrageous. Nice dilemma for DC

[Guitar Ray]

On last nights showing no way should Stone be dropped.  He had a solid game and you could say was unlucky with the goals.  Covolan can sit on the bench and reflect.  He’ll get another chance but hopefully not soon as, hopefully, the present incumbent will become unbeatable (unlikely, I know).

[eh up nah]

8 minutes ago, mr.hobblesworth said:

Those talking about immediately reinstating Covolan, what on earth does that tell the rest of the squad, especially the number 2 keeper who has presumably been advised to wait for his chance to prove himself, that you can have 2 red cards on the trot (albeit one in a friendly and one possibly harsh) and automatically be handed your place back? Don't be so bloody stupid. What message does it give Covolan, do what you like, the jumper's yours?

Stone should keep his place in the knowledge that Covolan is breathing down his neck and that he has to push himself if he wants to keep the shirt. 

I do agree with you on the message it sends out but, I think the Goalkeeping spot is unique.

I'm not into the two keepers battling it out setup.  You need a firm number one so that the defence knows exactly what they need to do and what they can expect the keeper to sort.  All the time.

If we've decided its Covolan I'd put him back in personally.

Keepers being pushed all the time make mistakes. It is a different mentality entirely.

If you go into a game in goal feeling like you've got to be exceptional then you're more likely to make a mistake I think.  You need to know the manager backs you and believes in you.  Confidence is everything in goal.

Look at De Gea at United.  Worlds best keeper a few years back, now he looks a shadow of himself.  He hasn't lost it I don't think, it's more the public opinion on Henderson I feel.

[philmpv]

Also thought the change last night was the introduction of Amoo, selection dilema for DC.

He did really well last night and his intro, together with the change in shape, turned the game in our favour. But we've seen this before with Amoo haven't we, particularly when he starts games. Here's hoping....

[mr.hobblesworth]

I would have thought complacency could be a huge factor in De Gea's loss of form over the last few years and that's what we'd be risking if Covolan was allowed to just waltz back in and re-claim the number 1 shirt.

[Joe B]

27 minutes ago, mr.hobblesworth said:

Those talking about immediately reinstating Covolan, what on earth does that tell the rest of the squad, especially the number 2 keeper who has presumably been advised to wait for his chance to prove himself, that you can have 2 red cards on the trot (albeit one in a friendly and one possibly harsh) and automatically be handed your place back? Don't be so bloody stupid. What message does it give Covolan, do what you like, the jumper's yours?

Stone should keep his place in the knowledge that Covolan is breathing down his neck and that he has to push himself if he wants to keep the shirt. 

Albeit on limited evidence, I think Covolan is a better goalkeeper than Stone. I thought Stone was fine last night but had a couple of spills. 

I don't really fancy a battle for the position, where each keeper is one mistake away from being dropped. As Eh Up Nah says, we need a settled number 1, not questions/debate every week. At Stone's age and with 20 senior appearances to his name, he's clearly been signed as the developmental goalkeeper. 

I was as furious at his shenanigans as everyone else and he needs to cut it out pronto, but he's the man that Flitcroft/Clarke identified as Brown's successor. He's had a massively ropey start but I would prefer him to be reinstated, with the full confidence of the management, so we can get the best out of what is most probably a good goalkeeper. 

[eh up nah]

47 minutes ago, mr.hobblesworth said:

I would have thought complacency could be a huge factor in De Gea's loss of form over the last few years and that's what we'd be risking if Covolan was allowed to just waltz back in and re-claim the number 1 shirt.

I don't think its complacency with De Gea.  I think his body language suggested that te errors he started making were confidence. 

If you've got two goalkeepers and either could start each week I think you're in for trouble.

If nothing else, the defence needs to absolutely sure about what they can expect as each keeper will be different.

It's the one position where consistency should be the absolute priority.

I think Stone looked a decent enough stand in by the way.

[Guitar Ray]

1 hour ago, Joe B said:

Albeit on limited evidence, I think Covolan is a better goalkeeper than Stone. I thought Stone was fine last night but had a couple of spills. 

I don't really fancy a battle for the position, where each keeper is one mistake away from being dropped. As Eh Up Nah says, we need a settled number 1, not questions/debate every week. At Stone's age and with 20 senior appearances to his name, he's clearly been signed as the developmental goalkeeper. 

I was as furious at his shenanigans as everyone else and he needs to cut it out pronto, but he's the man that Flitcroft/Clarke identified as Brown's successor. He's had a massively ropey start but I would prefer him to be reinstated, with the full confidence of the management, so we can get the best out of what is most probably a good goalkeeper. 

Based on concrete evidence, as in what we’ve actually seen in the games played so far, at this point in his Vale career there is no way on earth that you can suggest Covolan is the better keeper.  Naturally this may change over time, as we see more of each keeper.  Right now Covolan got the nod and screwed up.  Stone has got the shirt until form suggests otherwise.  Competition for places, throughout the squad.

I’m not sure what’s colouring people’s judgement.

[PV1973]

I don’t see the formation changing for Saturday and I think we could see Jones and Benning retain their places. To be fair Leon didn’t do badly either but i think Martin will come in for him. Conlon for Garritty. The dilemma is up front where proctor did himself no harm last night. 

[Iron Curtain]

1 hour ago, mr.hobblesworth said:

I would have thought complacency could be a huge factor in De Gea's loss of form over the last few years and that's what we'd be risking if Covolan was allowed to just waltz back in and re-claim the number 1 shirt.

What damage are we doing to him if we hold a sword over his head that says any mistakes you make and you are out again.

Lots of players talk about needing that confidence to play without the added pressure of losing your place.

Im not saying one way is right and the other isn’t… but there is lots to consider.

[mr.hobblesworth]

Don't be so silly. It's no more damaging than it is for any other player who knows that there is competition for their place. If you remove that element of competition, as some are suggesting, you take away a motivation for players to improve and learn from errors, let alone what it tells the squad players who step up and try to take their chance.

[valiant_593]

10 minutes ago, Iron Curtain said:

What damage are we doing to him if we hold a sword over his head that says any mistakes you make and you are out again.

Lots of players talk about needing that confidence to play without the added pressure of losing your place.

Im not saying one way is right and the other isn’t… but there is lots to consider.

Same could he said for stone though. He’s played decent, I don’t think it would be beneficial to him if he immediately gets dropped for a keeper who’s been sent off twice in two games. Unless Clarke has made it clear that covolan is the number 1 

[Mellor!]

[Santa]

I don’t think Stone has done anything to lose the shirt if I’m being honest with you, so if I was Daz I’d be saying “cheers Ade, top man” and picking him on Saturday.

Every so often Rudge would drop Musselwhite and give van Heusden a run of games, it kept him on his toes.