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Tom Pope Analysis


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He will get another club ,no problem his service for Vale was excellent ,would I have given him another year ,maybe I would but I'm not the manager DC is and he is the one who decided that he had to go so I will leave it to his judgement .

We will always remember fondly the Pope he earned everyone's respect on the field I wish him all the best .

Proctor Bailey Wilson and Rodney have work to do but ultimately its a team game and every player has to hit heights of a minimum 7/8 out of 10 performance every game if they do we will have a good season collectively as in past seasons its being bordering on 4/5 which is not good enough .

My analysis is that every player needs step up and Popey enjoys whatever new beginning opens up for him .

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5 hours ago, Tapper said:

I think popy  would of lasted longer if he would of stopped smoking and drinking so much. He gos and bys fags off my friend every day at the shop where livs. Even when he was playing for the vail he was in my dad's pub all the time getting pist up. It's takes it's toll in the end.

And the other stuff. Loved him as a player but wouldn't want him influencing younger players who perhaps want to take a more professional outlook.

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9 hours ago, Jacko51 said:

Interesting fact emerging from your stats, Paul, is the gradual reduction in minutes on the pitch. Last season he played the equivalent of less than 9 games. How much per minute did that cost us?

Short answer is how would I know?  However, apart from the "Twitter suspension" the minutes a player plays is in the hands of the manager and the player's fitness, no one can plan for a diabolical challenge like the Sunderland player perpetrated on Popey.

Playing budgets are planned and contracts awarded ahead of time presumably taking all this stuff into account. Also, I assume but don't actually know that clubs insure players against serious injury to cover their wages/investment.

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16 hours ago, Paul6754 said:

My arguments viz Tom Pope are consistent not rehashed. 

The figures you quote are disingenuous to Popey as they don't reflect minutes played and therefore do not give a fair picture. For example in 2020/21 season Tom Pope only played the full 90 mins just 3 times and only played 797 minutes etc.

Looking at only League games since Tom Pope has been at the  Vale and looking at goals scored vs minutes played for the season gives a different picture to the one you paint.

Season   Goals Scored/Minutes Played     Ratio

20/21                         3/797                         0.0038

19/20                         6/1508                       0.0039

18/19                        11/3086                       0.0036

17/18                        17/3679                       0.0046

14/15                          8/2561                        0.0031

13/14                        12/3507                        0.0034

12/13                        31/4093                        0.0077

11/12                          5/2958                         0.0017

10/11                           3/944                          0.0032

Career Overall         121/32360                     0.0037

These figures show Tom Pope is remarkably consistent in the goals he's scored compared to the minutes he's played per season apart from one standout season. However as I and others over the years have said TP isn't just about goals, he leads the line, holds the ball up, brings others into play, adds physicality etc.

Interestingly these figures show Popey scored a goal approx every 3 -4 games played for Vale each season apart from 12/13 and 11/12.

My statement, "There is no clear evidence and no facts in this matter" refers to the oft posted statements, he's over the top, he's past it, he's in decline etc which are all subjective comments although most footballers at 36 are past their best. My comment that TP is still good enough to play at this level for Port Vale is also subjective although it's based on seeing every minute TP has played this season and seeing him put in some tremendous performances leading the line/holding up the ball.

The only other negative fact you could quote is age but age is irrelevant if you're good enough and many footballers are still good enough to play at 36.

Anyhow, welcome to Jamie Proctor and I truly hope he does well for Port Vale.

 

I'm glad this got moved to a dedicated thread, as i was conscious of just me and Paul taking up so much space. I'd said i didn't want to carry this on, for that reason...sadly, Paul's spurious "facts" necessitate reply.

The use fo goals per minute is, very definitely, clutching at straws desperate - a striker could be shown as scoring 1 goal every 90 minutes...which doesn't sound bad? But - if those 90 minutes are spread across 10 games, then 1 goal per 10 games is less contrived a statistic. Also - if the player has only made appearances of around 9 - 10 minutes per game...why? Is it lack of form? Coming back from an injury? A disciplinary matter or are ther just better players in front of him? So, goals per minute doesn't really cut it.Also - where's the stats for missing penalties? Are there any stats that show the number of "sitters" being missed is rising? 

I admire your defence of an ex-player, Paul...I just wish it weren't like arguing with a brick! So, in the interest of not monopolising this forum, I won't be seeing your latest reply to this as, like so many before you, you're on my ignored list!

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30 minutes ago, Paul6754 said:

Short answer is how would I know?  However, apart from the "Twitter suspension" the minutes a player plays is in the hands of the manager and the player's fitness, no one can plan for a diabolical challenge like the Sunderland player perpetrated on Popey.

Playing budgets are planned and contracts awarded ahead of time presumably taking all this stuff into account. Also, I assume but don't actually know that clubs insure players against serious injury to cover their wages/investment.

Vale played 30 games before the Sunderland match. Tom started 11, 8 in the League. I can understand why the club thought the return on their investment was diminishing. 

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Christ, this is getting really tedious now. People are talking about him as if he’s Ronaldo. He isn’t, he was a very good L1/L2 footballer in his prime and I’d argue vastly underrated, but old Father Time has caught up. It happens. Now please, can we move on?

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Christ, this is getting really tedious now. People are talking about him as if he’s Ronaldo. He isn’t, he was a very good L1/L2 footballer in his prime and I’d argue vastly underrated, but old Father Time has caught up. It happens. Now please, can we move on?

This thread is specifically to discuss TP so other threads aren’t hijacked
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6 minutes ago, LancyTony said:

I'm glad this got moved to a dedicated thread, as i was conscious of just me and Paul taking up so much space. I'd said i didn't want to carry this on, for that reason...sadly, Paul's spurious "facts" necessitate reply.

The use fo goals per minute is, very definitely, clutching at straws desperate - a striker could be shown as scoring 1 goal every 90 minutes...which doesn't sound bad? But - if those 90 minutes are spread across 10 games, then 1 goal per 10 games is less contrived a statistic. Also - if the player has only made appearances of around 9 - 10 minutes per game...why? Is it lack of form? Coming back from an injury? A disciplinary matter or are ther just better players in front of him? So, goals per minute doesn't really cut it.Also - where's the stats for missing penalties? Are there any stats that show the number of "sitters" being missed is rising? 

I admire your defence of an ex-player, Paul...I just wish it weren't like arguing with a brick! So, in the interest of not monopolising this forum, I won't be seeing your latest reply to this as, like so many before you, you're on my ignored list!

Lancy, I wish you would stop and am pleased you've put me on your ignore list as I would prefer not to reply to posts containing miss-leading stats which have been lazily interpreted in an attempt to make a point.

Goals per minute on the pitch is not clutching at straws it is a much better reflection of a player's goal scoring record as the chances of scoring a goal are much lower when a player is on the pitch for a short time but this is still recorded as 1 game. Granted neither goals/minute or goals/game are perfect but the former is much less miss-leading as demonstrated.

In terms of missing sitters you really are clutching at straws. Who defines a sitter, we see some of the best players in the world missing so called sitters in the Euros, no player purposefully misses a sitter but it's easily done by all ages and level of player etc.

Moral of this is people have different opinions, just accept it.

 

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