Tom Pope Analysis

[LancyTony]

33 minutes ago, Paul6754 said:

I challenged Vale fans who replied to my original Tom Pope post with frivolous, disparaging posts. There are others on this thread with a similar view to me, granted there are more with the opposite view which is fine. There is no clear evidence and no facts on this matter just opinion.

I wasn't going to reply again, but you have just done what you often do - rehashed your previous statements...but, this time you stated ",,,there is no clear evidence and no facts..."...so - here are those pesky facts:

Tom Pope (season 2018/19) Played 41 Scored 14 (all competitions)

     "       "   (season 2019/20) Played 37 Scored 10 (all comps)

     "        " (season  2020.21) Played 23 Scored 3   (all comps)

As you can see - diminishing season after season! I take no pleasure in showing this - TP has been a fine servant for the Vale...but there is a time to acknowledge his contribution isn't what it was...and let it go! Please stop!

[Paul6754]

5 hours ago, LancyTony said:

I wasn't going to reply again, but you have just done what you often do - rehashed your previous statements...but, this time you stated ",,,there is no clear evidence and no facts..."...so - here are those pesky facts:

Tom Pope (season 2018/19) Played 41 Scored 14 (all competitions)

     "       "   (season 2019/20) Played 37 Scored 10 (all comps)

     "        " (season  2020.21) Played 23 Scored 3   (all comps)

As you can see - diminishing season after season! I take no pleasure in showing this - TP has been a fine servant for the Vale...but there is a time to acknowledge his contribution isn't what it was...and let it go! Please stop!

My arguments viz Tom Pope are consistent not rehashed. 

The figures you quote are disingenuous to Popey as they don't reflect minutes played and therefore do not give a fair picture. For example in 2020/21 season Tom Pope only played the full 90 mins just 3 times and only played 797 minutes etc.

Looking at only League games since Tom Pope has been at the  Vale and looking at goals scored vs minutes played for the season gives a different picture to the one you paint.

Season   Goals Scored/Minutes Played     Ratio

20/21                         3/797                         0.0038

19/20                         6/1508                       0.0039

18/19                        11/3086                       0.0036

17/18                        17/3679                       0.0046

14/15                          8/2561                        0.0031

13/14                        12/3507                        0.0034

12/13                        31/4093                        0.0077

11/12                          5/2958                         0.0017

10/11                           3/944                          0.0032

Career Overall         121/32360                     0.0037

These figures show Tom Pope is remarkably consistent in the goals he's scored compared to the minutes he's played per season apart from one standout season. However as I and others over the years have said TP isn't just about goals, he leads the line, holds the ball up, brings others into play, adds physicality etc.

Interestingly these figures show Popey scored a goal approx every 3 -4 games played for Vale each season apart from 12/13 and 11/12.

My statement, "There is no clear evidence and no facts in this matter" refers to the oft posted statements, he's over the top, he's past it, he's in decline etc which are all subjective comments although most footballers at 36 are past their best. My comment that TP is still good enough to play at this level for Port Vale is also subjective although it's based on seeing every minute TP has played this season and seeing him put in some tremendous performances leading the line/holding up the ball.

The only other negative fact you could quote is age but age is irrelevant if you're good enough and many footballers are still good enough to play at 36.

Anyhow, welcome to Jamie Proctor and I truly hope he does well for Port Vale.

 

[Playa Amodores]

3 hours ago, Paul6754 said:

How is that relevant to the point you were trying to make. Neither player was used as a barometer or were expected to replicate Pope's role, they're both very different players to TP.

Paul, perhaps it’s to do with character, is TP difficult to manage due to what he has done for the club.?

[Jacko51]

7 hours ago, Paul6754 said:

My arguments viz Tom Pope are consistent not rehashed. 

The figures you quote are disingenuous to Popey as they don't reflect minutes played and therefore do not give a fair picture. For example in 2020/21 season Tom Pope only played the full 90 mins just 3 times and only played 797 minutes etc.

Looking at only League games since Tom Pope has been at the  Vale and looking at goals scored vs minutes played for the season gives a different picture to the one you paint.

Season   Goals Scored/Minutes Played     Ratio

20/21                         3/797                         0.0038

19/20                         6/1508                       0.0039

18/19                        11/3086                       0.0036

17/18                        17/3679                       0.0046

14/15                          8/2561                        0.0031

13/14                        12/3507                        0.0034

12/13                        31/4093                        0.0077

11/12                          5/2958                         0.0017

10/11                           3/944                          0.0032

Career Overall         121/32360                     0.0037

These figures show Tom Pope is remarkably consistent in the goals he's scored compared to the minutes he's played per season apart from one standout season. However as I and others over the years have said TP isn't just about goals, he leads the line, holds the ball up, brings others into play, adds physicality etc.

Interestingly these figures show Popey scored a goal approx every 3 -4 games played for Vale each season apart from 12/13 and 11/12.

My statement, "There is no clear evidence and no facts in this matter" refers to the oft posted statements, he's over the top, he's past it, he's in decline etc which are all subjective comments although most footballers at 36 are past their best. My comment that TP is still good enough to play at this level for Port Vale is also subjective although it's based on seeing every minute TP has played this season and seeing him put in some tremendous performances leading the line/holding up the ball.

The only other negative fact you could quote is age but age is irrelevant if you're good enough and many footballers are still good enough to play at 36.

Anyhow, welcome to Jamie Proctor and I truly hope he does well for Port Vale.

 

Interesting fact emerging from your stats, Paul, is the gradual reduction in minutes on the pitch. Last season he played the equivalent of less than 9 games. How much per minute did that cost us?

[Fosse69]

Comments transferred to new thread as not part of transfer news

[Howjy04]

13 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

Interesting fact emerging from your stats, Paul, is the gradual reduction in minutes on the pitch. Last season he played the equivalent of less than 9 games. How much per minute did that cost us?

Too much.

[tisdeano]

Interesting fact emerging from your stats, Paul, is the gradual reduction in minutes on the pitch. Last season he played the equivalent of less than 9 games. How much per minute did that cost us?

I doubt know where near enough it’s going to cost him if the injury he received playing for vale and played on with costs him his career

[hamilboy]

What Tom Pope has done for the vale is in the record books and i thank him for his career to his home town club only wish that i could have had the opportunity to do the same as any football mad fan would be.But time waits for no man we have to move on the generations of vale fans will have different views on where he sits in the table of centre forwards who have worn the shirt of Port Vale football club. My own opinion would like i said before he would not get in the top 10 of strikers that i have seen wearing the shirt of the vale.I am sure in the coming years he will be honoured some how at the vale but for now lets look forward and give everything to the players and staff for this coming season get behind this team and stop wallowing in the past.

[geoff1]

23 minutes ago, tisdeano said:

I doubt know where near enough it’s going to cost him if the injury he received playing for vale and played on with costs him his career

 

23 minutes ago, tisdeano said:

I doubt know where near enough it’s going to cost him if the injury he received playing for vale and played on with costs him his career

hes gone, get over it as many have gone before him😗

[dishydave]

I doubt know where near enough it’s going to cost him if the injury he received playing for vale and played on with costs him his career

Apparently he can't get insurance because of his shoulder injury I don't know how true this is as I was told by a bloke in the pub. But it could be the reason why he hasn't been snapped up you would think he would be top of the list for most national league clubs

[tisdeano]

hes gone, get over it as many have gone before him

Fairly sure this thread is specifically aimed at discussing TP , have you started drinking all ready

[tisdeano]

Apparently he can't get insurance because of his shoulder injury I don't know how true this is as I was told by a bloke in the pub. But it could be the reason why he hasn't been snapped up you would think he would be top of the list for most national league clubs

He’s had plenty of interest , however his game relies on the physical side, his shoulder is key to that

[Warren]

Wilf Kirkham went on to have a successful career in teaching after football. So coming towards the end of career I hope Tom Pope can transition in his work and professional life as well. I think football like all sport is a ruthless profession to follow and the end always comes early. Good luck. Best wishes. Thanks for entertaining and trying best.

[Fosse69]

19 minutes ago, tisdeano said:

Fairly sure this thread is specifically aimed at discussing TP , have you started drinking all ready

Thread is 100% for Tom Pope. He may no longer be on the PV Matrix, but people still care and this is the place.  

[tisdeano]

Thread is 100% for Tom Pope. He may no longer be on the PV Matrix, but people still care and this is the place.  

Thanks , I suspect Geoff’s started drinking early