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Euro 2020


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1 hour ago, philpvfc said:

It’s pretty obvious that managerial skills are not the most important attributes to have when being manager of England. Being on favour with the press is massively important, Taylor was crucified as was Sven to a certain degree, while Venables who I did not rate was loved by the press and Southgate is very good in the way he comes across hence the press love him. 

Taylor and Sven were weird managers though.

Taylor slightly unfortunate as he took over a squad coming to the end of the line.  But he still changed too much and bombed out every old head we had at the same time.

And he picked Carlton Palmer!

Sven, in my opinion, was a very odd manager.  He came to the England job off the back of a title win at Lazio where they won with literally the last kick of the season having spent a gazillion on players that season.

The football under him was awful and the utilisation of the players we had was wasteful.  He just played every big name player, with no regard for an actual game plan or style.

Venables had the character and a bit more of  gung ho style.  He's as close as we've come to a Redknapp, who people were clamouring for at one stage.

I liked him.

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On 13/07/2021 at 13:34, valefan16 said:

The main issue with Southgate is he can be slow to make in game changes (the goal was coming) and does seem negative tactically when you consider the incredible attacking talent we now have.

Our squad is far better than Italy man for man but they won it deservedly and our main weakness appeared to be defensively pre tournament and we ended up very solid so there is a balance there.

When you consider the 'golden generation' when our squad was full of world class players in all positions, mostly at their peak around 2004-10 and how they performed despite the huge talent we had (2 QF, 1 R16 and a failure to make Euro 2008) then it does show the good job Southgate has done and the future looks incredibly bright, St Georges and the investment and set up the FA have put in place is starting to pay off like Spain did and Clairefontaine in France and I do feel we have a great chance now to be a big player in the next decade.

 

I agree,he is slow to make changes and considering the quality of players he has on the bench it seems to be his weakness Fresh legs in last twenty minutes of normal time might have made a big difference but unfortunately we'll never know.

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On 13/07/2021 at 14:34, philpvfc said:

Not at all, Southgate has done a good job in both tournaments but I do not agree he is as good as many are coming out with and yes, Hodgson is a better manager, look at his club record and compare to what Southgate has done outside the England job. England were 2nd favourites to win the trophy going in to the tournament and we finished 2nd, yes Southgate did a good job to get us to the final but we ended up where we were predicted to finish.

Last time I looked we are 7th favourite to go up this season, if we make the play offs in 7th position and fail in the play off final, will you be saying that DC is fantastic and done a great job?

 

Hodgson was absolutely appalling as England manager. Southgate has his shortcomings, he’s too conservative and that’s what I think lost us the final. But he’s a million times better than Hodgson was. Just look at their tournament records. 

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1 hour ago, valiant_593 said:

Hodgson was absolutely appalling as England manager. Southgate has his shortcomings, he’s too conservative and that’s what I think lost us the final. But he’s a million times better than Hodgson was. Just look at their tournament records. 

Hodgson was the guy who thought it was a good idea to have Harry Kane taking corners!

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I have sympathy for Southgate. As said before, if we win, it's the players, if we lose it's because of Southgate. He can't win even if we do. There is no doubt there is a style of play that is jarring to supporters but it has an efficiency that has achieved a semi-final and a final in consecutive tournaments which is remarkable considering our history. Winning 2 knockout matches in 90 minutes is also incredible and cannot be attributed to just the players.

Everything went wrong in the 2nd half on Sunday though and where England have made progress in a lot of areas, one area that hasn't changed is how we cope when we take an early lead in a big game. First half I thought we were outstanding. I haven't watched the match back yet and I'm not sure how long it will be before I do but I thought we really throttled Italy's attack well, Kane was as good as I've seen him in an England shirt, winning pretty much every aerial duel, bringing the ball down and taking on players deep, it was fantastic to watch, but the wheels came off in the second half and Southgate has to look at it as it's preventing glory. He was set up too defensive in the end, there was no outlet, no creative players on the pitch until it was too late and we needed someone who could hold the ball up to allow our back line to push up.

 

Overall though, what a ride, what a tournament. Loved every second of it.

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Posted (edited)

 

Arsene Wenger would be my go to guy after Southgate. He'd fancy it. He also obviously knows the English game like the back of his own hands. It's a no-brainer. If he couldn't get us playing and entertaining then nobody will.

Edited by Beech
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6 hours ago, Paul6754 said:

Southgate has to go otherwise the same process will repeat itself again at the next world cup.

Which process, the one where we get to the final? I'd quite happily see a repeat of that process thanks! 

I genuinely can't believe you're on about sacking a manager after he got us to our first final in 55 years, and only lost on penalties. Of course he's not perfect, but no manager is. If you get a manager who is less cautious, or is an absolute master tactician, you might have to compromise on the man management or other aspects, and end up in a much worse position overall.

Whether you rate him or not, Southgate has got results as England manager, and has the team on an upward trajectory, having picked up the job when we were at our lowest ebb (having lost to Iceland and then having to briefly suffer Big Sam and his pints of wine).

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20 minutes ago, Clayts said:

Which process, the one where we get to the final? I'd quite happily see a repeat of that process thanks! 

I genuinely can't believe you're on about sacking a manager after he got us to our first final in 55 years, and only lost on penalties. Of course he's not perfect, but no manager is. If you get a manager who is less cautious, or is an absolute master tactician, you might have to compromise on the man management or other aspects, and end up in a much worse position overall.

Whether you rate him or not, Southgate has got results as England manager, and has the team on an upward trajectory, having picked up the job when we were at our lowest ebb (having lost to Iceland and then having to briefly suffer Big Sam and his pints of wine).

I don't think you will find a better example of the fickle football fan. Ignores the progress, ignores the 55 years its taken to get to final again, the mentality to think of bringing someone else in who might not even get us out of the group is astonishing. 

The players clearly respect him, they believe in what he's trying to do with the team, to even consider removing him from that position is so knee-jerk and is exactly what is wrong with the average football fan - no balance to their views, just get rid, easy. 

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2 minutes ago, Rocky said:

I don't think you will find a better example of the fickle football fan. Ignores the progress, ignores the 55 years its taken to get to final again, the mentality to think of bringing someone else in who might not even get us out of the group is astonishing. 

The players clearly respect him, they believe in what he's trying to do with the team, to even consider removing him from that position is so knee-jerk and is exactly what is wrong with the average football fan - no balance to their views, just get rid, easy. 

Very true, football is based on results and we are improving in each major competition with a young team. By all means review the games and talent available, no doubt plenty of advice will be given, but as long as progress is being made carry on with Southgate. There is always someone better until they get in the hot seat.

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40 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:

Very true, football is based on results and we are improving in each major competition with a young team. By all means review the games and talent available, no doubt plenty of advice will be given, but as long as progress is being made carry on with Southgate. There is always someone better until they get in the hot seat.

The fact is every time we meet a top 10 team we get beat and Germany apparently are not in the top 10 at the moment 

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2 minutes ago, Coyney Valiant said:

The fact is every time we meet a top 10 team we get beat and Germany apparently are not in the top 10 at the moment 

Denmark are and we beat them.

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2 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

Denmark are and we beat them.

 

And Germany crushed Portugal who are a top 5 team in the same tournament. After that game so many people said they looked fantastic and could get to the final.

We beat them and it's "Not what they used to be" and "poor team".

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What we're lacking is that player that knits things together in midfield like a Pirlo or a Modric. Someone that is always available and can dictate the pace of the game.  In the last 2 major tournament defeats we've lost grip in the midfield and given up too much possession.  The very best sides wouldn't give up 2/3 possession to anyone.  It causes us to drop deeper and inevitably the pressure tells. 

I think we're among the best in the world in defence and attack but it lacks that midfield maestro to take us to the top level.  Perhaps Bellingham might be that player eventually? 

We also lack that killer instinct and psychologically we're still not very strong.  We were beaten before the penalty shoot out the other night.  Just looking at the body language of the Italians compared to us.  They didn't look nervous or anxious. 

Having said that, we could have still stumbled over the line.  If Rashford's penalty goes in I think we would have won. There would have been more pressure put on the Italians at that point.  I mean Rashford sent the keeper the wrong way but he was trying to be too precise.  I'd always go for increased power over accuracy as it gives the keeper less time to react.

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2 hours ago, leedsvaliant said:

What we're lacking is that player that knits things together in midfield like a Pirlo or a Modric. Someone that is always available and can dictate the pace of the game.  In the last 2 major tournament defeats we've lost grip in the midfield and given up too much possession.  The very best sides wouldn't give up 2/3 possession to anyone.  It causes us to drop deeper and inevitably the pressure tells. 

I think we're among the best in the world in defence and attack but it lacks that midfield maestro to take us to the top level.  Perhaps Bellingham might be that player eventually? 

We also lack that killer instinct and psychologically we're still not very strong.  We were beaten before the penalty shoot out the other night.  Just looking at the body language of the Italians compared to us.  They didn't look nervous or anxious. 

Having said that, we could have still stumbled over the line.  If Rashford's penalty goes in I think we would have won. There would have been more pressure put on the Italians at that point.  I mean Rashford sent the keeper the wrong way but he was trying to be too precise.  I'd always go for increased power over accuracy as it gives the keeper less time to react.

That ridiculous run up to the ball did him no favours 

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