Jump to content

  • OVF player sponsorship 2022

    £10 to enter. More details and a link to donate can be found here

Euro 2020


robf

Recommended Posts

Advert:


6 hours ago, philpvfc said:

Not at all, Southgate has done a good job in both tournaments but I do not agree he is as good as many are coming out with and yes, Hodgson is a better manager, look at his club record and compare to what Southgate has done outside the England job. England were 2nd favourites to win the trophy going in to the tournament and we finished 2nd, yes Southgate did a good job to get us to the final but we ended up where we were predicted to finish.

Last time I looked we are 7th favourite to go up this season, if we make the play offs in 7th position and fail in the play off final, will you be saying that DC is fantastic and done a great job?

 

The betting is irrelevant. Were we second favourites anywhere else in Europe?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Clayts said:

So, just out of curiosity, do you think this England team is significantly better than any team we've had in the last 25 years? We're very strong in attacking midfield and at full-back, but are we really that strong through the core of the team (GK, CB, CM, ST) compared to previous years?

If you accept that the current team (or that in 2018 for that matter) isn't notably stronger, then to what do you attribute the greater level of success? I certainly wouldn't say we had an especially easy draw, (Ukraine QF aside, which we strolled), and certainly progressed far more serenely (including with wins against Croatia, Czech Rep and Germany) than in say 1990, when we were very lucky to get past Belgium and especially Cameroon and only got out of the group with a 1-0 v Egypt.

If it really was in spite of Southgate, and not at least partially thanks to him, how crap was every single manager England have had since Ramsey to do even worse than Southgate?

 

To be fair we have had plenty of toss managers. The way I see it, plenty of other nations aren't as strong as they have been. Germany, Portugal, Spain, Netherlands... Even Italy who are now Euro Champions aren't the team they were when they had the likes of Pirlo and Totti etc. I also think that we were quite fortunate in both the last World Cup and this Euro's just gone in regards to who we played. That's not to say we had it easy, but things could definitely have been a lot more difficult than they turned out.

It might be a bit harsh to say that we made the final despite of Southgate. I've got nothing against him - I think he's a top bloke and clearly has some positive attributes. But it isn't harsh to say that he's not got anywhere near enough out of our attacking options, which are the envy of lots of other Nations. I don't have any faith that we'll suddenly start to look the force we could and should be under him either. As well as we did to make the final I was genuinely bored watching England at times, which takes some doing when you have players like Foden, Grealish, Sancho and Mount.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Jacko51 said:

The betting is irrelevant. Were we second favourites anywhere else in Europe?

Yes….. I thought the same before the cup started so logged on to a French booking site which had us down at exactly the same odds and joint favourites alongside France. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It’s pretty obvious that managerial skills are not the most important attributes to have when being manager of England. Being on favour with the press is massively important, Taylor was crucified as was Sven to a certain degree, while Venables who I did not rate was loved by the press and Southgate is very good in the way he comes across hence the press love him. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Advert:


20 hours ago, For Us All said:

Player of the match perhaps but Pickford would have got my vote for player of the tournament with five clean sheets.

He hardly had a shot to save, that statistic speaks to the defence, Rice and Phillips more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On 13/07/2021 at 09:31, darren1810 said:

How did the powers that be come to the conclusion that Donnarumma was player of the tournament ?

Bearing in mind they won the group with their eyes closed and from the last 16 onwards it's not like they were battered and he made a flurry of fantastic saves to get them to the final. 

Seems to me he's been given it based on a few easy penalty saves. 

I'd assume 99% of the time it's a player from the winning team so Chiesa would of got my vote. 

Very strange choice . 

Because he was available to give the trophy to there and then, it would have looked random for a 3rd team player to walk on, and would have been met with scorn to give it to the real player of the tournament, Sterling, in that moment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At the end of the day a 70 year old centre half duo should not be getting to a shoot out against some of the best support strikers in the world. Much less scoring against them. We didn’t attack with the ball at feet enough, couldn’t get it out wide fast enough. Once we scored the goal we tried to contain when we should have just ran them ragged on the wings. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, 1 said:

At the end of the day a 70 year old centre half duo should not be getting to a shoot out against some of the best support strikers in the world. Much less scoring against them. We didn’t attack with the ball at feet enough, couldn’t get it out wide fast enough. Once we scored the goal we tried to contain when we should have just ran them ragged on the wings. 

Yep.

I think its probably correct that Donnarumma made more saves in the penalty shootout than he had to in the entire 120 minutes of the game!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, philpvfc said:

It’s pretty obvious that managerial skills are not the most important attributes to have when being manager of England. Being on favour with the press is massively important, Taylor was crucified as was Sven to a certain degree, while Venables who I did not rate was loved by the press and Southgate is very good in the way he comes across hence the press love him. 

Taylor and Sven were weird managers though.

Taylor slightly unfortunate as he took over a squad coming to the end of the line.  But he still changed too much and bombed out every old head we had at the same time.

And he picked Carlton Palmer!

Sven, in my opinion, was a very odd manager.  He came to the England job off the back of a title win at Lazio where they won with literally the last kick of the season having spent a gazillion on players that season.

The football under him was awful and the utilisation of the players we had was wasteful.  He just played every big name player, with no regard for an actual game plan or style.

Venables had the character and a bit more of  gung ho style.  He's as close as we've come to a Redknapp, who people were clamouring for at one stage.

I liked him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Advert:


On 13/07/2021 at 13:34, valefan16 said:

The main issue with Southgate is he can be slow to make in game changes (the goal was coming) and does seem negative tactically when you consider the incredible attacking talent we now have.

Our squad is far better than Italy man for man but they won it deservedly and our main weakness appeared to be defensively pre tournament and we ended up very solid so there is a balance there.

When you consider the 'golden generation' when our squad was full of world class players in all positions, mostly at their peak around 2004-10 and how they performed despite the huge talent we had (2 QF, 1 R16 and a failure to make Euro 2008) then it does show the good job Southgate has done and the future looks incredibly bright, St Georges and the investment and set up the FA have put in place is starting to pay off like Spain did and Clairefontaine in France and I do feel we have a great chance now to be a big player in the next decade.

 

I agree,he is slow to make changes and considering the quality of players he has on the bench it seems to be his weakness Fresh legs in last twenty minutes of normal time might have made a big difference but unfortunately we'll never know.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On 13/07/2021 at 14:34, philpvfc said:

Not at all, Southgate has done a good job in both tournaments but I do not agree he is as good as many are coming out with and yes, Hodgson is a better manager, look at his club record and compare to what Southgate has done outside the England job. England were 2nd favourites to win the trophy going in to the tournament and we finished 2nd, yes Southgate did a good job to get us to the final but we ended up where we were predicted to finish.

Last time I looked we are 7th favourite to go up this season, if we make the play offs in 7th position and fail in the play off final, will you be saying that DC is fantastic and done a great job?

 

Hodgson was absolutely appalling as England manager. Southgate has his shortcomings, he’s too conservative and that’s what I think lost us the final. But he’s a million times better than Hodgson was. Just look at their tournament records. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, valiant_593 said:

Hodgson was absolutely appalling as England manager. Southgate has his shortcomings, he’s too conservative and that’s what I think lost us the final. But he’s a million times better than Hodgson was. Just look at their tournament records. 

Hodgson was the guy who thought it was a good idea to have Harry Kane taking corners!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Advert:


I have sympathy for Southgate. As said before, if we win, it's the players, if we lose it's because of Southgate. He can't win even if we do. There is no doubt there is a style of play that is jarring to supporters but it has an efficiency that has achieved a semi-final and a final in consecutive tournaments which is remarkable considering our history. Winning 2 knockout matches in 90 minutes is also incredible and cannot be attributed to just the players.

Everything went wrong in the 2nd half on Sunday though and where England have made progress in a lot of areas, one area that hasn't changed is how we cope when we take an early lead in a big game. First half I thought we were outstanding. I haven't watched the match back yet and I'm not sure how long it will be before I do but I thought we really throttled Italy's attack well, Kane was as good as I've seen him in an England shirt, winning pretty much every aerial duel, bringing the ball down and taking on players deep, it was fantastic to watch, but the wheels came off in the second half and Southgate has to look at it as it's preventing glory. He was set up too defensive in the end, there was no outlet, no creative players on the pitch until it was too late and we needed someone who could hold the ball up to allow our back line to push up.

 

Overall though, what a ride, what a tournament. Loved every second of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Arsene Wenger would be my go to guy after Southgate. He'd fancy it. He also obviously knows the English game like the back of his own hands. It's a no-brainer. If he couldn't get us playing and entertaining then nobody will.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Reporting Posts and Ignoring Users

    • Admin don't read everything. Don't assume we'll spot rule breaking. Please report posts and we'll act ASAP. If you're logged in use the orange report post button. If you're not logged in, please - Contact us here
    • If you can't get on with another user you can "ignore" them. Follow the link, type in their username and save - Click here
    • Check with admin if you wish to sell/auction any items. We're happy to support good causes but check first - Contact us here
  • Friends of OVF




×
×
  • Create New...