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Euro 2020


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1 hour ago, Paul6754 said:

No one predicted England would reach the final because most realized that even though England had first rate players we had a third rate manager and everyone had seen what the third rate manager did to England's chances at the 2018 World Cup and afterward at the Nations Cup (or whatever it was called).

The 2020 Euros were virtually a carbon copy of the 2018 World Cup, last night's outcome was so predictable, especially once England's team was announced. Will Southgate ever learn, the sad reality is he will most likely take the same ideas and approach to the next World Cup where we may not be so fortunate with the draw.

Completely agree with everything you said there, this was an unbelieavle chance, everything fell into place for us, will we ever all matches at home again, not sure we will, don't see us getting a World Cup and Euros probably wont come back for another 20+ years.  So many big teams knocked out early.  Going into the tournament all our main players fit apart from Alexander-Arnold  and right back we have so much depth so was not a miss.  

I said last night that was exactly the same as Croatia and for me at half-time it needed changing, last 25 mins of first half Italy were getting on top and we could not get the ball.  Southgate said he had learned from the Croatia game but he clearly hadn't.  You can't expect to win many games against quality teams with 30% possession.  We have Man City/Liverpool standard players but Burnley/Crystal Palace mentality with the coaching set up.  

A great Euros though and one of the better recent tournaments and for me this Euros proved that there should be a minimum 16 European countries at the World Cup instead of the riculous 13 that there is, so much more quality from Europe than in the World Cup when so many bad matches with the lesser nations.

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1 hour ago, mr.hobblesworth said:

Curious that you'd take that approach rather than doing whatever anyone with a modicum of decency would do. "Silly" emojis, wtf?

 

So you can't answer my simple question? 

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3 hours ago, mr.hobblesworth said:

So sickened by the abuse dished out to the 3 lads who missed. Feel really down today and not even about the result. As much as I hate empty patriotism, I believed that the team's progress in the Euros would possibly change minds or at least get racists to appreciate the positives of our multi-cultural country. I thought that possibly the decrease in the booing of the team taking the knee might mean that people had begun to accept it, perhaps even accept the reasons behind it. But no, all that was happening was a few more coins were added to the bounty, the pressure increased until there were scapegoats, and poisonous witless <ovf censored> could unleash their 'payback'. I really despair. Imagine the mindset it would take to spray racist comments over a mural of Rashford, a man who went out of his way to feed children and spent some of lockdown working in a food bank. What kind of person thinks it's ok to tweet monkey emojis at a 19 year old lad who has probably just experienced the most devastating moment of his life. Really <ovf censored> fed up of this and, as Gary Nevile said, it starts at the top.

Superbly put and reflects my feelings entirely 

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I suppose the majority on hear would say I'm being pedantic but England did not NOT lose last night. After 120 minutes of football the match finished as a draw. I would argue that the penalties after the match finished, were to decide who would hold the trophy for the next four years, and whoever "won" the shootout (lottery,) should be called joint European Champions and Euro Penalty Champions. Penalty shootouts are a ridiculous way of deciding a three week long championship. A golden goal with a player from each team being withdrawn every five or so minutes, makes a win much more valid. I would argue that shootouts only have any value in knock-out games and semi-finals, but in a final as the last game, it's a completely false way of deciding a winner. The whole competition came down to to a single penalty and triggered massive disappointment to all fans, as well as soul searching, racial abuse and violence as well as giving three young men an undeserved millstone to carry around for the rest of their career. This isn't just because England lost, I would feel the same if we had won the shootout. I'll now get my tin hat

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58 minutes ago, jjvale_03 said:

So you can't answer my simple question? 

Because it's a stupid <ovf censored> question. I thought that was why you deleted it. I am sure some of the trolls with their disgusting (not "silly") emojis weren't English, just as some definitely were. Maybe it was a Russian bot that flew in to Manchester specifically to deface the Rashford mural, perhaps the guy from Savill's with about 100 followers really did get his phone hacked. You seem desperate for this to be the case rather than face up to the racism endemic in our society. 

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Removing any emotion and disappointment from the result and not wanting to ignore the overall progress of the team over the past five years, I am still left wondering if we fully grasped the opportunity that we had last night? 

Ahead of kick off,  everything was in our favour. Home crowd, fully behind the team, high confidence with a team full of pace and dynamism that we've not seen for many a year, against team with players of excellent quality and experience,  but with an aging defence.  Even the cooler weather was on our side. 

So apart from the opening five minutes,  which produced an amazing goal, what exactly was our game plan that ensured that we take full advantage of these factors in our favour? 

Excuse my tactical naivety and perhaps ignorance  but why were we allowing the Italian centre backs to literally walk the ball to the halfway line under no pressure or engagement?  Shouldn't defending start from the front by chasing and closing down? 

Our energy from such young attacking players should have resulted in a torrid night for the Azzuri back line, yet they could have turned out adorning pipes slippers and smoking jackets for much of the game and that's how it was for more than 70 of the 90 minutes, occasionally with them doing what was cynically necessary, which didn't radically change in extra time.

If we had been picked of by even the odd goal or even two, by having a right go at them,  then fair enough I'd have said it's a final and they showed their class and experience,  but I can't help but feel that it was huge opportunity missed by playing in such a passive way. 

As for the penalties, I don't even want to go there because we had 120 minutes to run the old blokes at the back in to the ground, yet didn't even try to.  Was it fear, lack of ability, or just that the Italians were just so technically brilliant? 

Ultimately,  if we embrace and back our young players attacking ability coupled with a really impressive defence, we'll undoubtedly improve further and just maybe,  make that final step to bring home one of the major trophies that have eluded us for so very long. 

Come on England and The Vale!

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10 minutes ago, Old fort said:

Removing any emotion and disappointment from the result and not wanting to ignore the overall progress of the team over the past five years, I am still left wondering if we fully grasped the opportunity that we had last night? 

Ahead of kick off,  everything was in our favour. Home crowd, fully behind the team, high confidence with a team full of pace and dynamism that we've not seen for many a year, against team with players of excellent quality and experience,  but with an aging defence.  Even the cooler weather was on our side. 

So apart from the opening five minutes,  which produced an amazing goal, what exactly was our game plan that ensured that we take full advantage of these factors in our favour? 

Excuse my tactical naivety and perhaps ignorance  but why were we allowing the Italian centre backs to literally walk the ball to the halfway line under no pressure or engagement?  Shouldn't defending start from the front by chasing and closing down? 

Our energy from such young attacking players should have resulted in a torrid night for the Azzuri back line, yet they could have turned out adorning pipes slippers and smoking jackets for much of the game and that's how it was for more than 70 of the 90 minutes, occasionally with them doing what was cynically necessary, which didn't radically change in extra time.

If we had been picked of by even the odd goal or even two, by having a right go at them,  then fair enough I'd have said it's a final and they showed their class and experience,  but I can't help but feel that it was huge opportunity missed by playing in such a passive way. 

As for the penalties, I don't even want to go there because we had 120 minutes to run the old blokes at the back in to the ground, yet didn't even try to.  Was it fear, lack of ability, or just that the Italians were just so technically brilliant? 

Ultimately,  if we embrace and back our young players attacking ability coupled with a really impressive defence, we'll undoubtedly improve further and just maybe,  make that final step to bring home one of the major trophies that have eluded us for so very long. 

Come on England and The Vale!

To be honest,I thought we looked tired in the second half and Italy took advantage.We dropped too deep and hardly tested their keeper.That extra days rest for the Italians may have contributed?

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3 minutes ago, For Us All said:

To be honest,I thought we looked tired in the second half and Italy took advantage.We dropped too deep and hardly tested their keeper.That extra days rest for the Italians may have contributed?

Subs perhaps?

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Southgate was the 34th consecutive manager to fail to beat Mancini’s Italy. That included the manager of the No 1 ranked team in the world a couple of week ago. Yet last night was supposed to be easy for us. I do wonder what planet some people are living on. 

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4 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

Southgate was the 34th consecutive manager to fail to beat Mancini’s Italy. That included the manager of the No 1 ranked team in the world a couple of week ago. Yet last night was supposed to be easy for us. I do wonder what planet some people are living on. 

Agree fully. Italy were 7th in the most recent world rankings and are surely about to rise further after this tournament having beaten the sides in 1st, 4th and 6th in doing so.

Folk seem to see their lack of a “star” name as equalling a poor side. Couldn’t be further from the truth in this particular Italy side and where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

Some right nonsense being spouted about Southgate as well. For a supposedly “third rate” manager, doing arguably the toughest job in football, he’s got the 2nd best win record of any England manager since the WW2, only surpassed by Capello and has achieved more in tournament football than any manager other than Sir Alf Ramsey.

Both aspects of the above highlight the thing I find most frustrating with folk and England. We massively over-hype ourselves at the first glimpse of success and we massively over-react to any perception of failure irrespective of whether it is failure or not (neither the WC or Euros represent failure in IMO).

We were a couple of penalty kicks away from a first European Championship and a first major trophy in 55 years, with the 2nd youngest squad in the competition.

I get the craving for success. You can damn sure guarantee that Southgate and the squad get it too. But a little perspective wouldn’t go amiss from some of our so called national team “supporters”.

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10 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

Southgate was the 34th consecutive manager to fail to beat Mancini’s Italy. That included the manager of the No 1 ranked team in the world a couple of week ago. Yet last night was supposed to be easy for us. I do wonder what planet some people are living on. 

I don't think anyone on here posted that the match was going to be easy and a walkover for us.  What we had was a great opportunity that might not come along again for such a long time, I have confidence it will but it may not be as easy in future tournaments.  We had so many things in our favour with the home advantage, weather conditions, we all know we struggle in the heat.  I just felt that instead of giving it a go, we were passive and allowed Italy to control the vast majority of the game and he was slow to make his changes.  I look at our team and Italy and for me apart from the keeper and a couple in midfield, I would choose our team and our squad. 

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, valefan79 said:

I don't think anyone on here posted that the match was going to be easy and a walkover for us.  What we had was a great opportunity that might not come along again for such a long time, I have confidence it will but it may not be as easy in future tournaments.  We had so many things in our favour with the home advantage, weather conditions, we all know we struggle in the heat.  I just felt that instead of giving it a go, we were passive and allowed Italy to control the vast majority of the game and he was slow to make his changes.  I look at our team and Italy and for me apart from the keeper and a couple in midfield, I would choose our team and our squad. 

But Southgate is being lambasted for doing what 33 managers previously have failed to do - beat Italy. It’s easy to sit in front of the telly telling a manager what he should be doing. It’s a bloody site harder being the bloke on the touchline who has to make the decisions. Italy had the run of the ball last night - if Pickford’s save had gone an inch or two wider and gone for a corner they wouldn’t have scored. If the ref had played by Premier League rules Jorginho would have walked. If we had been as adept at the dark arts as much as them it might have been different. As it is England have improved immeasurably under Southgate. Don’t forget Ramsey was castigated by the press for picking a team of wingless wonders yet they won the World Cup.  International managers generally know what they’re doing ….. apart from McClaren!

Edited by Jacko51
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20 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

Southgate was the 34th consecutive manager to fail to beat Mancini’s Italy. That included the manager of the No 1 ranked team in the world a couple of week ago. Yet last night was supposed to be easy for us. I do wonder what planet some people are living on. 

Serious question, Who said last night's game was gonna be easy for England? I only heard comments like, Italy are the best team in the tournament, Italy have played some of the best football, England have home advantage which could be a plus or a negative etc. I heard Del Piero say on ESPN "He thought England had the stronger squad" to which Sammy kadeira retorted "But Italy have the better manager" to which Macca chimed in with, "I hope Southgate isn't too negative etc.

I can't remember seeing a post or hearing anyone say or intimate anything remotely close to "it would be easy for us".

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Posted (edited)

 

Southgate deserves a LOT of credit for getting the team enjoying playing for the country again. And you can't argue with his record, despite us being fortunate twice with the draw it has to be said.

But I feel England made the final despite of him, and not somewhat because of him. Had Mancini being in charge of us last night we would have been celebrating being European Champions today.

Edited by Beech

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