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Southgate was the 34th consecutive manager to fail to beat Mancini’s Italy. That included the manager of the No 1 ranked team in the world a couple of week ago. Yet last night was supposed to be easy for us. I do wonder what planet some people are living on. 

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4 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

Southgate was the 34th consecutive manager to fail to beat Mancini’s Italy. That included the manager of the No 1 ranked team in the world a couple of week ago. Yet last night was supposed to be easy for us. I do wonder what planet some people are living on. 

Agree fully. Italy were 7th in the most recent world rankings and are surely about to rise further after this tournament having beaten the sides in 1st, 4th and 6th in doing so.

Folk seem to see their lack of a “star” name as equalling a poor side. Couldn’t be further from the truth in this particular Italy side and where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

Some right nonsense being spouted about Southgate as well. For a supposedly “third rate” manager, doing arguably the toughest job in football, he’s got the 2nd best win record of any England manager since the WW2, only surpassed by Capello and has achieved more in tournament football than any manager other than Sir Alf Ramsey.

Both aspects of the above highlight the thing I find most frustrating with folk and England. We massively over-hype ourselves at the first glimpse of success and we massively over-react to any perception of failure irrespective of whether it is failure or not (neither the WC or Euros represent failure in IMO).

We were a couple of penalty kicks away from a first European Championship and a first major trophy in 55 years, with the 2nd youngest squad in the competition.

I get the craving for success. You can damn sure guarantee that Southgate and the squad get it too. But a little perspective wouldn’t go amiss from some of our so called national team “supporters”.

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10 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

Southgate was the 34th consecutive manager to fail to beat Mancini’s Italy. That included the manager of the No 1 ranked team in the world a couple of week ago. Yet last night was supposed to be easy for us. I do wonder what planet some people are living on. 

I don't think anyone on here posted that the match was going to be easy and a walkover for us.  What we had was a great opportunity that might not come along again for such a long time, I have confidence it will but it may not be as easy in future tournaments.  We had so many things in our favour with the home advantage, weather conditions, we all know we struggle in the heat.  I just felt that instead of giving it a go, we were passive and allowed Italy to control the vast majority of the game and he was slow to make his changes.  I look at our team and Italy and for me apart from the keeper and a couple in midfield, I would choose our team and our squad. 

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10 minutes ago, valefan79 said:

I don't think anyone on here posted that the match was going to be easy and a walkover for us.  What we had was a great opportunity that might not come along again for such a long time, I have confidence it will but it may not be as easy in future tournaments.  We had so many things in our favour with the home advantage, weather conditions, we all know we struggle in the heat.  I just felt that instead of giving it a go, we were passive and allowed Italy to control the vast majority of the game and he was slow to make his changes.  I look at our team and Italy and for me apart from the keeper and a couple in midfield, I would choose our team and our squad. 

But Southgate is being lambasted for doing what 33 managers previously have failed to do - beat Italy. It’s easy to sit in front of the telly telling a manager what he should be doing. It’s a bloody site harder being the bloke on the touchline who has to make the decisions. Italy had the run of the ball last night - if Pickford’s save had gone an inch or two wider and gone for a corner they wouldn’t have scored. If the ref had played by Premier League rules Jorginho would have walked. If we had been as adept at the dark arts as much as them it might have been different. As it is England have improved immeasurably under Southgate. Don’t forget Ramsey was castigated by the press for picking a team of wingless wonders yet they won the World Cup.  International managers generally know what they’re doing ….. apart from McClaren!

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20 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

Southgate was the 34th consecutive manager to fail to beat Mancini’s Italy. That included the manager of the No 1 ranked team in the world a couple of week ago. Yet last night was supposed to be easy for us. I do wonder what planet some people are living on. 

Serious question, Who said last night's game was gonna be easy for England? I only heard comments like, Italy are the best team in the tournament, Italy have played some of the best football, England have home advantage which could be a plus or a negative etc. I heard Del Piero say on ESPN "He thought England had the stronger squad" to which Sammy kadeira retorted "But Italy have the better manager" to which Macca chimed in with, "I hope Southgate isn't too negative etc.

I can't remember seeing a post or hearing anyone say or intimate anything remotely close to "it would be easy for us".

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Southgate deserves a LOT of credit for getting the team enjoying playing for the country again. And you can't argue with his record, despite us being fortunate twice with the draw it has to be said.

But I feel England made the final despite of him, and not somewhat because of him. Had Mancini being in charge of us last night we would have been celebrating being European Champions today.

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How did the powers that be come to the conclusion that Donnarumma was player of the tournament ?

Bearing in mind they won the group with their eyes closed and from the last 16 onwards it's not like they were battered and he made a flurry of fantastic saves to get them to the final. 

Seems to me he's been given it based on a few easy penalty saves. 

I'd assume 99% of the time it's a player from the winning team so Chiesa would of got my vote. 

Very strange choice . 

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9 hours ago, Paul6754 said:

Serious question, Who said last night's game was gonna be easy for England? I only heard comments like, Italy are the best team in the tournament, Italy have played some of the best football, England have home advantage which could be a plus or a negative etc. I heard Del Piero say on ESPN "He thought England had the stronger squad" to which Sammy kadeira retorted "But Italy have the better manager" to which Macca chimed in with, "I hope Southgate isn't too negative etc.

I can't remember seeing a post or hearing anyone say or intimate anything remotely close to "it would be easy for us".

Player of the tournament is always given to one playing for the winning team, and he would be up there. Personally, I think Chiesa has been their best player.

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10 hours ago, Beech said:

I feel England made the final despite of him

So, just out of curiosity, do you think this England team is significantly better than any team we've had in the last 25 years? We're very strong in attacking midfield and at full-back, but are we really that strong through the core of the team (GK, CB, CM, ST) compared to previous years?

If you accept that the current team (or that in 2018 for that matter) isn't notably stronger, then to what do you attribute the greater level of success? I certainly wouldn't say we had an especially easy draw, (Ukraine QF aside, which we strolled), and certainly progressed far more serenely (including with wins against Croatia, Czech Rep and Germany) than in say 1990, when we were very lucky to get past Belgium and especially Cameroon and only got out of the group with a 1-0 v Egypt.

If it really was in spite of Southgate, and not at least partially thanks to him, how crap was every single manager England have had since Ramsey to do even worse than Southgate?

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Yes, we have the best squad in my lifetime. Is Southgate better than a lot of the managers we have had before? I would say no, certainly not better than Hodgson. I would not go as far to say despite Southgate but I do not think his tactics have been marvellous like the press have been saying, his tactics have seen us to the final, had his tactics been more attacking we may well have got to the final as well so it cannot fully be said that we got to the final because of his tactics. What is for sure, his tactics did not work in the final and had we played like we did in extra time for the full match we may well have won the game.

Out of all the games we played there is not one team except Italy I expected us to lose to, we were favourites behind France going in to the tournament, more favourites than the Italians despite their great run going in to the tournament and the bookies are not usually far off so we must have had one of the best squads. Similar to the World Cup, when it comes down to the crunch against good opposition we <ovf censored> it up and I believe that is mostly down to the tactics employed by the manager. We did well to get to the final, is that down to the manager? Partly yes but we were expected to anyway.

 

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58 minutes ago, Rampant Zebra said:

We beat Germany with Southgate as a a manager, how many other managers have achieved that in a tournament, apart from Sir Alf obviously...

Sven was manager when we won 5-1 in Germany during a qualifier. 

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1 hour ago, philpvfc said:

Yes, we have the best squad in my lifetime. Is Southgate better than a lot of the managers we have had before? I would say no, certainly not better than Hodgson. I would not go as far to say despite Southgate but I do not think his tactics have been marvellous like the press have been saying, his tactics have seen us to the final, had his tactics been more attacking we may well have got to the final as well so it cannot fully be said that we got to the final because of his tactics. What is for sure, his tactics did not work in the final and had we played like we did in extra time for the full match we may well have won the game.

Out of all the games we played there is not one team except Italy I expected us to lose to, we were favourites behind France going in to the tournament, more favourites than the Italians despite their great run going in to the tournament and the bookies are not usually far off so we must have had one of the best squads. Similar to the World Cup, when it comes down to the crunch against good opposition we <ovf censored> it up and I believe that is mostly down to the tactics employed by the manager. We did well to get to the final, is that down to the manager? Partly yes but we were expected to anyway.

 

Not better than Roy Kane-on-corners Hodgson?

The man that couldn't sort us out to beat Iceland?

I wouldn't fancy Southgate managing my club side but he has turned England around no end.

I put a post on here showing all the teams we'd beaten in knockout stages prior to this tournament going back to 1990.  It was a rather embarrassing list to say the least!

Could've even gone further because we only beat Paraguay in 86.

He's got us to a semi final and a final.

We conceded two goals, one a freaky set piece and the other was an inch away from being a corner after Pickfords save.

I'd take Southgate over Sven, the Brolly Wally, Capello and Hodgson.

The performances we put out in tournaments under them (or not, in Mclarens case as we didnt qualify), especially taking into account some of the players they had were, to be frank, a joke.

The fact that Paul Scholes, who according to his fellow pros is the best midfielder we've ever produced, retired at 29 because we played him left wing speaks volumes. 

Sven took Theo Walcott, who was yet to make an Arsenal appearance and was 17 at the time, to the 2006 world cup.  That was over Darren Bent (premier league top scorer in the year leading up to that) and Jermain Defoe.  Walcott didnt even get on the pitch.

 

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